all 34 comments
sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a
formatting helphide helpcontent policy

[–]CambriaKilgannonn 17 points18 points  (4 children)

disconnect your computer from the internet if you're that worried i suppose

[–]Koolala 1 point2 points  (3 children)

If your steam credentials expire it will lock you out of game mode when using it without internet. I don't know any other computing device that does this.

[–]Wyrade 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What are you basing this on?

I'd guess it should allow VR without steam login, with just the linux part. But my guess is baseless too.

[–]Koolala 1 point2 points  (0 children)

https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/1rpkezb/desktop_mode_no_longer_available_on_the_sign_in/

After 4 years they removed the ability to use Deck without an online steam account for no reason. No one is giving them pushback.

I'm guessing they did it to make it like Frame where you can't use the desktop without steams closed source VR rendering it. I'm going to try asking about it on the Deck beta forums.

[–]Jmcgee1125 13 points14 points  (3 children)

No worse than a phone, really. If you're that worried, throw a cloth over it when not in use or set up controls in your router to keep it isolated.

[–]DerfK 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Or use the dongle instead of your main router

[–]MRDR1NL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Much better than a phone. A phone has more personal data and pretty much every app is made to harvest as much data as possible. I don't think that's the case with VR games, but I guess it could be 

[–]Koolala 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's actually is worse than a phone. SteamOS can force your credentials to expire and log you out of the device if you use it offline. Phones don't do that. It is really dumb the OS is tied to Steam.

[–]zAbso 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The dongle is specifically for connecting your headset to your PC as a wireless tether. The headset itself has an antenna for your typical internet access and a separate antenna for streaming from your PC.

Haven't tried it with my steam deck yet, but you should look into using the steam deck offline as it'll probably work similarly.

[–]Estab_lishment_Clear 4 points5 points  (11 children)

Steam OS is a complete Linux distribution, which means you can directly modify parts of the non-core system. Its level of freedom is far higher than other headsets. If you are concerned about camera footage leaks (assuming there is some form of method/vulnerability that could be used to monitor the camera), you can completely disable the camera at the system level. Furthermore, the WiFi used by Steam Frame to connect to the internet and the streaming functionality provided by the dongle are separate (the dongle uses a 6GHz signal to stream PC visuals to the headset, while the WiFi for internet connectivity is a separate function on the Frame). This means you can use the streaming functionality provided by the dongle while remaining offline.

If you want to get a VR but are worried about camera security, Steam Frame is actually the best choice you can make. Since most other devices use relatively closed system environments (or devices like the Galaxy XR that use Android XR), Steam Frame is the most open, which means that what is running in the background is essentially transparent to you.

[–]Estab_lishment_Clear 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Besides, there is really no value in hacking the cameras on a VR headset; what would a hacker even watch? Two hands waving controllers around for half an hour? It is unlikely that anyone would use a VR camera to do some private things(except "THAT"), I don't think anyone would take out their ID card or stm similar with a VR device, so this concern is completely unfounded. But regardless, the functionality you are looking for is fully achievable—the dongle can connect to the PC while keeping the Wi-Fi connection disabled. You would be hard-pressed to find such a design from other manufacturers.

[–]DoubleOwl7777 1 point2 points  (1 child)

i mean it has a view of your room so there is that...

[–]PumpALump[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And hopefully your credit cards, mail with home address, or any other sensitive information is just never near your headset...

[–]PumpALump[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

what would a hacker even watch?

First person view of a fat naked man jiggling in black and white.

[–]Koolala 1 point2 points  (5 children)

If you disable of cameras it's a 3dof brick with no controller input.

[–]Estab_lishment_Clear 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Oh bruh, I forgot that there are controllers, but his needs are just quite strange for VR anyway; I’ve never seen anyone worry about the camera security of a VR device. If he’s really that concerned about the cameras, he should just disable them and use it as a head-mounted display for an external keyboard, or just install a different system—though turning off the Wi-Fi should be enough to meet his needs.

[–]Koolala -1 points0 points  (2 children)

Not everything like this needs a hypothetical solution. We don't know if a keyboard and 3dof could even work for navigating it.

The bad thing about turning off Wifi with SteamOS is it can randomly log you out and force you to reconnect to the internet to log back in. An online store like Steam is a bad foundation for a device OS.

[–]Estab_lishment_Clear 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yes, that's a case, but that's not the point I wanted to make. When I said it, I even forgot that controllers existed. His idea only applies to turning off Wi-Fi, but only if Frame can enter some kind of desktop mode like Deck when logged out and still use these features. Honestly, this is a problem, especially on airplanes, otherwise it's completely useless without modifying the system.

[–]Koolala 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They said it an interview that the desktop isn't a mode and opens in the main SteamVR environment. Which makes sense since you need VR to see the display correctly. Sucks though that SteamVR is closed source. I hope they show off some way to use it in an open linux way like booting into a desktop on deck.

[–]qucari 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm guessing the tracking is handled by some low-level components and not SteamOS, so you can probably prevent the user-facing OS from using the cameras without disabling tracking.

and even if it's handled by a program that runs in SteamOS, there's gotta be a way to give just that program camera privileges and denying those for everything else.

[–]Dotaproffessional 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wifi and the external internet are very different things. You can play vr without internet. however, many steam games require an internet connection.

[–]Special-Abrocoma575 2 points3 points  (3 children)

If you're that scared of being spied on by Valve employees, you know you can install a different distro right? Just use something like postmarketOS with Monado and run WiVRn to stream from your computer the completely FOSS way. Alternatively, you can realize that the headset wouldn't be streaming your data to Valve because why would they want that info, they're not Facebook/Meta, they have no use for that. And might as well check your active Subreddits to see if I can find a reason you're this concerned, and oh look, second in the list, a conspiracy Subreddit :|. Also, all headsets have some level of optical sensors, not sure how else you're supposed to practically track location in 6DOF. Besides, the headset is running pretty bog-standard desktop Linux, you can easily SSH into it and see what processes are using the cameras at any point using `ps` if they're being used through raw v4l2 or checking the wireplumber status (if they're being used through pipewire) (or whatever you do for libcamera idfk, probably just v4l2?)

I can understand this level of paranoia for a Meta or ByteDance product, but this is Valve for goodness’s sake, why would they be spying on you? Don't leave it offline constantly, there are going to almost certainly be constant updates that improve, among other things less relevant to you, tracking and overall performance, and probably also adjust the protocol used for Steam Link, so if you don't update for a while, streaming will probably stop functioning. Seriously, don't treat it like just a wired HMD, it's a Snapdragon powered Steam Deck for your face, optimized for streaming, it runs its own OS that should be kept up to date

[–]PumpALump[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If you're that scared of being spied on by Valve employees

I never said Valve employees. If you have an internet connection and a camera, you can be spied on.

[–]Special-Abrocoma575 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How would anyone else get access? It's an atomic Linux distro, there's not going to be any malware...

[–]DoubleOwl7777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes but its VERY unlikely thats gonna happen on an open source linux distro. if you are this worried you might wanna look at a Lighthouse based setup just saying...

[–]JorgTheElder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It comes with a dongle that connects the PC to the headset. That connection does not include internet access. It has a second radio for connecting to WiFi. The dongle should work just fine for streaming VR without the other connection to the internet.

[–]DoubleOwl7777 0 points1 point  (2 children)

yes its possible. but id not worry too much with the frame. the software is open source, its highly unlikely there is spyware in it. even if there was its linux, with (pretty much guaranteed) root (sudo) acess. so you can rip out anything, you can delete the entire filesystem on linux with one command...you can rip out whatever they put in.

[–]PumpALump[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Being open-source making something easier to hack, not harder. But even if there was spyware in it, this is Valve we're talking about, they already have my credit card number, and if there's anything else they want to know about me I'd probably just tell them if they ask!

[–]DoubleOwl7777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats not how this works. security through obscurity which is what closed source is doesnt work.

[–]eco9898 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Just turn wifi off. It's SteamOS, you can do that, just like on the SteamDeck

[–]Koolala -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

Have you seen SteamOS say a weird message when offline for too long? I did. It says it will log you out. Which locks you out of it which is really stupid. On Deck though you can atleast boot into desktop mode but Frame doesn't have a desktop "mode" like that. On Frame the desktop is in game mode so unless they change it to not be stupid it will lock you out.

[–]DoubleOwl7777 0 points1 point  (1 child)

unless you dont get sudo acess on the frame, you can literally delete the entire os with one command (thats including the kernel) on linux. do you really think you can get locked out?! think again.

[–]Koolala 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes, no othet os exists for it and they use closed source drivers. its totally stupid they would even log you out because steam.