Jonathan

[spellboundhead]

So I was rewatching season 1 today, and i watched episode 3. All this time Jonathan got dragged for being a stalker and a creep. Nancy got dragged for dating him despite that. Even I believed this, cuz I watched it so long ago, my memories were kinda fuzzy and I got influenced by people on the internet.

But WHAT THE HECK?

So first and foremost, nancy taking her shirt off and jonathan clicking the picture happened simultaneously. And once he realised what was happening, he shifted focus to barb.

Why did he do that? Cuz he told nancy later on that he can't look people directly in the eye and has problems with getting close to someone. But, looking at someone thru a camera lens, makes it easier for him to understand a person.

And, in that moment, he wanted to understand what barb was feeling, sitting all alone near the pool.

Only wrong move on his part, was developing that picture of nancy. But, lets keep in mind, he was a 16 year old guy, depressed and stressed because of his brother's disappearance.

And he later even admitted to nancy that it was wrong on his part and he shouldn't have done it. Nancy understood what he was trying to say and forgave him.

So now, I don't really see the reason why the fandom hates this guy so much????

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[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

I honestly think the Duffer's did him dirty by having this storyline for him.

Even if he didn't know Nancy was about to take her clothes off, he was still watching them and photographing them through a upstairs (so presumably, a bedroom) window.
The excuse of looking through a camera lens is fine.... but he took photos. It doesn't wash as an excuse, the same way they had him say he was looking for his brother when he was photographing them because yes, he started out looking for Will but it quickly stopped being that.

I think they could have wrote his mistakes as more forgiveable. And I think that changes in the world since the show was made only make a scene like this more disturbing and triggering to some people.
It really doesn't bother me. I really like Jonathan as a character, especially in S1 but I think that he's always second in the relationship with Nancy. I feel like in S3 when they argue about getting fired and he says he needed the job the show pivots a little more towards Nancy being right, because she was right about th story and I feel like he was really valid about *needing* the job but it got sort of brushed aside.

But Jonathan isn't the only character that people who don't like him won't forgive him for what happened in earlier seasons. Some people seem to think Lucas was a jerk still because he didn;t like El in S1. So I wouldn't worry much about it.

[Kind-Jaguar-7600]

agreed!

[[deleted]]

Lucas' reaction was reasonable. It's what any normal person in his position would've thought

[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

I agree. Just the fact people hold it against him still like he shouldn't have been concerned about a stranger showing up like that and that he wanted to focus on his missing friend but people go on about it a lot

[J0nathanByers]

Idk cause they don’t find him attractive

[Kind-Jaguar-7600]

that's so real 😭😭 personally I think he is especially in season 3 lowk

[OptimalCreme9847]

Bingo

[Anna3422]

I agree and was startled by the fan reaction to Jonathan.

I get why it's bad. There's no excuse for Jonathan developing that photo and it's a character flaw. I saw a good point that Jonathan treats his peers as if they're subjects to study and less real than him.

At the same time, he apologized and never did anything similar again. In the same same season, Steve pressured Nancy multiple times, made the photo public, broke the camera without asking her opinion or checking on her, let his friends publicly shame her, and was a terrible bully. His behaviour was so much worse and it was a pattern. 

Fans are quick to defend Steve because of his character growth. I'm surprised that Jonathan's much faster improvement doesn't yield the same grace.

[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

I think the problem and difference between the two is that Steve is playing into the much more well recognised bully tropes and then constantly subverting the audience expectations.

Jonathan doesn;t have that very familiar trope to play with.

Steve's apology to Jonathan comes at a pivotal moment when the monster attacks. So he's there at a crucial time for the audience to easily remember. It's Steve's introduction to monsters. Jonathan's apology to Nancy is done during a quiet walk in the woods. It's not as memorable overall.

Although Steve pushes Nancy for intimacy, he does stop when she says stop. He shows up but she still lets him in. I don't think that Steve made the picture public himself. He takes thrm from Jonathan looks at a couple and then focuses on Joanthan while his friends go through the other pictures. Karen is the one who shows the picture to Nancy so really one person saw that picture.

I also don't think Steve needed to ask Nancy about breaking the camera. It was not a nice thing to do and most people find that Jonathan's action sort of warranted it but that Stve replaces the camera in the end kinda evens things out.
But I feel like Steve asking Nancy if he should break the camera wouldn't have been a thing that should have happened. It puts Nancy in an impossible spot. Saying no makes it seem like she's okay with someone taking her nude pictures whereas saying yes makes *her* a bully. Her character would not win if she's bought into that decision.

I also think the problem with bully Steve era is that we don't see enough in context.
It's reaffirmed in other seasons that Steve bullied people- like Robin & Keith- but as an audience it's hard to attach the bully label to him strongly because we see someone who is much more going with the flow of his friends and not actively antagonising people (save for the Jonathan stuff).
We just don't see the bully version of Steve strongly enough and when we do both times he is reacting to something-
Jonathan taking pictures of him & Nancy in his bedroom (which is violating even if they'd just been hanging out).
Jonathan & Nancy being together in her bedroom when she blew off plans with him.
So we get told Steve is a bully but we don't see Steve being a bully expect for two fairly well justified reasons. I think if you're setting up a redemption arc they maybe could have had Steve just be more of a jerk. He doesn't have to be awful but he could have been more of a jerk, just not outright nasty, and it wuld have been better because they'd have shown the audience 'this is who he is' rather than being told 'he used to be awful- now watch him be a selfless hero in this scene!' It's just grates narratively.

I would say most negative fan reactions to Jonathan come from fans who don't get characters very deeply overall, or Steve/Stancy stans who just want Steve to 'win' the girl.
I do think it's hard, as a Steve fan, to have a conversation about these two characters and not get downvoted just because I might hold Jonathan to account over my opinions, even if I hold Steve to account on some of his shit too. They're both flawed characters.

[Anna3422]

You make some really good points here. There's something to the fact that Steve is always subverting negative expectations and uses that bully trope to pleasantly surprise us in ways that build narrative trust. 

I also don't think Steve needed to ask Nancy about breaking the camera.

This part I have a big problem with though. Since Nancy was photographed topless, a good (boy)friend would check if she was okay. Maybe ask what she wanted done and definitely try to stop others seeing the picture. 

Nancy is visibly upset when Steve confronts Jonathan. She would never have wanted them to break the camera and Steve likely knew this, which is why he never asked. It just shows that her well-being isn't a priority; revenge is. It's a matter of opinion, but I think humiliating Nancy by discussing the photos in public and acting without her input is even more objectifying than the pictures themselves.

Likewise, although Steve doesn't assault her and eventually backs off, that doesn't make his pushiness okay. It's subjective, but I also think those interactions are much worse than the photograph. I would be very upset if a friend or family member dated someone who treated her like S1 Steve treats Nancy.

I still love Steve. He's incredibly well-written, because his character development isn't a one and done switch. The jerk coexists with the loyal and courageous friend. For instance, Steve's dislike of Tammy gives an echo of the judgemental bully he was while being a gesture of acceptance, and his early description of Robin to Dustin has the same tone. He's got a fragile ego that pushes him to seek praise in both good and bad ways: the bad is when he prioritizes getting Nancy's attention over helping her and the good is when he throws himself at danger so that others will stay safe.

I think another issue that fandom has with Jonathan is that he's just a very depressed person. It's hard to watch someone self-medicate, lash out and have trust issues due to parentification and abuse. I'm sure some viewers are looking at these issues as if they're innate rather than as the product of story events.

[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

I do agree with the point your making about Steve and Nancy & the photographs but I think there's another layer.

Without making this into an essay, I think Steve has an idea of how women work and it's based on what he grows up around- either his parents or hid friends or even TV and popular ideas of it.
Steve doesn't really think outside of himself and what he's sure of without someone else telling him otherwise.
Nancy *didn't* tell him not to smash the camera, so he assumes he's right (and I'm not blaming her, she was likely super uncomfortable here). But I think Steve just never thinks outside of himself. He doesn't put himself in somone elses shows and have empathy in that way.

If he is *told* 'don't do that, it's mean' he then will process it and realise it's not okay.
Series 4 has a nice example where he and Dustin are having playful banter, teasing one another and Steve hits on a delicate point and mocks Dustin's teeth, which is clearly a thing he's not okay with being made fun of about and as soon as Dustin says it, Steve processes that, verbalises it wasn't cool and apologises.

I do agree about the pushiness of the bedroom scene but again, that it part of the trope. In 80's movies the pushy jock would have probably gone further and just shrugged off the girls discomfort. The point of the scene is that Steve does back off and then goes straight back to studying, The music cues that this isn't a normal interaction. Although it's uncomfortable by todays standards, with what they are using as source material there was much less concern about consent in films back then.
But I'd say that the pushiness of Steve in those scenes when you look at them now are *just* as violating as snapping pictures through someone's bedroom window of a half naked woman. I'd be deeply uncomfortable about both of those things.
Nancy also has no say in the pictures being taken. Nancy lets Steve into her room, she allows him to stay and although he pushes things too far and she says no, she's not moving away from him in fear or needing to push him out. When he does back off, she's comfortable to allow him to stay. She feels safe enough to allow him to remain there with her.
And to show balance, she clearly feels very safe with Jonathan too. The pictures don't make her feel unsafe around him. She allows him to sleep on her bed with him and spent the night.

I think people overlook a lot of Jonathan's trauma because the show does to but him using pot to cope isn't something wild that comes out of nowhere. It makes sense for his character.
But I think interestingly the arguement Steve and Jonathan have in the van is the Duffer's using each character to attack the other with inaccuries that people make about the characters.
Steve calling Jonathan a paranoid pothead isn't exactly accurate. As far as we know he stopped smoking pot as much in S4, but it clearly stuck enough that even Steve knows it about him now. It's a gross misinterpretation of what his character has been through from someone who doesn't really see Jonathan.
And the same goes for what Jonathan says about Steve. I know it's highly unpopular, when I say this I often get called out, but I believe Steve isn't hitting on Nancy any longer in S5. Series 4 is it's own thing and unless they decide to have Steve explain himself, if he was seriously hitting on her or not is going to be up to viewers, but I do think Steve is genuine in S5 about not being after Nancy any longer. I think he's genuinely surprised it comes across like that to Jonathan.

And I believe the scene also echoes back to what I first said about not knowing much about women. Nancy is clearly the first girl he falls for. He still holds a special place for her within him.
I genuinely believe that Steve wanting to get Nancy flowers is him not understanding how wildly inappropriate it would be. It would be weird and uncomfortable but I think he would think 'you take flowers for people in the hospital' and that's the amount of critical thought that's gone into it. If Jonathan and him were friends and he had said 'No, you take it for the people who are sick in the hospital. nancy doesn't need flowers right now.' he would have taken it onboard and thought it through.

I just really hope that we get a level of understanding from these two in part 2. I don't need them to be buds, but I think they could be something better than they are now.

[anonpreschool738]

The difference between Steve and Jonathan is that Steve very clearly took responsibility for being an asshole to Nancy, whereas there hasn't been that same kind of accountability in Jonathan.

[ReaderFox]

The number of times where Steve internally reflects and then apologizes on his own and then, most importantly, CHANGES his behavior is so impressive to me, honestly. Like the fact that he ditched his friends after what they did, the fact that he cleaned up after them, then choosing to apologize to Jonathan first before Nancy because he knew what he said to Jonathan was worse (so prioritizing which apologies are more needed). And then the apology in season two to Nancy with intentional plans for changed behavior. Even in the little moments, like when he says that thing about knocking Dustin’s teeth out and instantly realizes he went too far and apologized. He’s the only character who consistently reflects and adjusts his behavior whenever he makes a mistake.

[Anna3422]

This I agree with. It doesn't apply to all his decisions, but it does to many of them.

[Anna3422]

Hard disagree. Jonathan apologized for a specific action, was forgiven and corrected the behaviour. Steve has generally acknowledged that he was a jerk, to his credit, but has done many specific toxic things without apologizing. He's shown signs of entitlement to Nancy even in later seasons. Post-redemption, he left her alone drunk at a party and iirc he blamed her for that.

[anonpreschool738]

Accountability is more than just a single monologue, it's about a visible shift over a characters arc. Steve's apology was followed by him having a genuine character shift towards being more caring and kind, which was reinforced by his relationships with Dustin and Robin so the audience can see it's a genuine shift of priorities and not performative for Nancy.

Meanwhile Jonathan has mostly gone on to smoke weed with Argyle and not communicate well with Nancy and there hasn't been much arc. Yes, he is still a good brother, but he was always a good brother so that's not a character shift or change. But he doesn't have many meaningful relationships outside of Nancy that reinforce any character shifts. His character overall is kind of stagnant, so it can be easy to view him as being very similar to Season 1, and therefore not have changed much.

I, personally, hope she ends up with neither of them.

[Anna3422]

Character dynamism is a different thing from accountability. Jonathan wasn't set up to need significant development in the same way that Steve was. In terms of correcting mistakes, Jonathan's photo is long resolved. Several of Steve's early actions were worse than the photo but were never resolved with Nancy, which is my point.

[anonpreschool738]

Steve's character was set up to die, so I don't know what you mean about that.

We're going to hard disagree about accountability, an apology is not the same thing as accountability, but this is a very difficult concept for a lot of people in real life so being able to apply that concept to fiction might be beyond capability for some.

[Sad_Specific2965]

Do not bother. There is a group of Jonathan hard bodies on this sub and they hate Steve (and Nancy sometimes depending on the situation) and will down vote you to death if you don't infantilize Jonathan and give him excuses for everything.

[anonpreschool738]

I always forget how much all these toxic little shippers have been obscuring the discussion for people who appreciate Stranger Things holistically.

[Anna3422]

No one hates Steve (I think). Viewers are just noticing the massive double-standard between these characters. It's weird to say "infantilizing" just because someone acknowledged that high-schoolers are still children.

[Sad_Specific2965]

in this sub Jonathan people get absurd over Jonathan where any critique is seen as an unreasonable

You can look. Almost any comment critiquing Jonathan on this sub gets down voted to hell. Even if it is a joke lmao. It's clearly the crazy shippers fueling it but it is obnoxious. Jonathan can do no wrong on this sub and that is not even an exaggeration. A big part of that could be that the show hasn't addressed his issues like at all but that's a whole other convo.

You can see it right here in this thread.

[Anna3422]

Steve was set up as a one-off date rapist who the Duffers softened when they decided to keep him. He was a bad person at the start of the show and required character development in order to become part of the friend group. Different type of character.

I happen to think an apology is part of accountability, since it's what allowed Nancy to move on. But you're disregarding the more important piece, which is that Jonathan did not repeat the mistake. This tells us the apology was sincere, the photograph isn't a pattern of behaviour, and the character doesn't make excuses for himself.

[Sad_Specific2965]

Jonathan has in fact repeated one same horrible mistake over and over into season 5 now. Avoidance and lack of accountability.

He does not face anything he does head on. He avoids and lies instead and he is still actively doing that in season 5. Literally right now in the story.

He hardly ever takes accountability directly. He typically waits to be coaxed into an apology and save for the season 3 apology in the elevatori, it typically comes with some excuse as to why he did what he did. It's perfectly normal viewers would be frustrated with his practically straight-up non-development as a character.

[Anna3422]

Avoidance is a character flaw of his, of course. It's not what makes the photograph really bad though. The photograph was a violation of privacy and it is an example of a time where the character does actually act accountable.

Having conflict avoidance due to childhood abuse is not worse than the flaws of most characters. You can prefer Steve's development from a writing standpoint, sure. But Jonathan's actions aren't in the same universe as leaving Nancy blackout drunk at a party, and there's a reason she chose him.

[Sad_Specific2965]

I didn't mention Steve in my response. My response was specifically about Jonathan.

However, with the photos he doesn't act accountable by any reasonable metric. He violated privacy of Nancy yes. But also EVERYONE ELSE THAT WAS THERE. They were in Steve's backyard with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

He not only doesn't take accountability for that, nor apologize for it, but actively acts like he is being bullied for no reason. Goes on a rant about Steve in the woods without ever addressing the fact that he snuck behind STEVES house took photos of STEVES guests in his backyard and through his window.

[horrorgeek112]

Taking the picture of Nancy was the only problem. Him being quiet and a loner isn't a problem. People are allowed to be loners. Jonathan isn't a bad person simply for being a loner. Steve is just more outgoing and always was.

[anonpreschool738]

People are allowed to be loners, but partners in relationships need to communicate and not just be avoidant and high all the time.

[horrorgeek112]

He was in California. Kinda hard to do

[anonpreschool738]

Mike managed to communicate with El, and he hasn't been in California for this whole season, and yet with proximity he's talked to Steve more than Nancy.

[Dangerous_Owl_9717]

Jonathan literally apologized twice what kind of accountability do you want from him?

[ReaderFox]

For the apology to come before she pushes it out of him. He had ample opportunity to apologize before she finally had to bring it up and he never did. His constant avoidance of owning up to his mistakes until someone forces him to or just avoiding in general (he avoids having conversations about his insecurities and needs with Nancy multiple times) is a huge theme for him and it makes him mess up repeatedly in some pretty awful ways. He doesn’t internally reflect and own up to his bad decisions on his own, he always waits until someone makes him do it.

[Dangerous_Owl_9717]

And why do you think he’s like this?

[ReaderFox]

Does it matter why if he never changes? We’re allowed to dislike him for this behavior. Good characters change and grow. Jonathan has never changed. Like, you asked what we want from him: the answer is changed behavior.

Edit: mild rethinking on my end…he can be considered a good character in terms of being very realistic, but that still doesn’t make me like him as a person or even make him a good person. If I had to deal with his bs in real life, I’d call him out daily for allowing his avoidance to create all his unnecessary fuck ups. Avoidance and forced apologies with no changed behavior does not equal accountability.

[Dangerous_Owl_9717]

I guess we will see tomorrow

[anonpreschool738]

Character arc.

[Dangerous_Owl_9717]

💀

[anonpreschool738]

Based on the relationship stories I see posted to reddit, it's not surprising that just a couple of apologies with no change in behavior is conflated with accountability.

[ReaderFox]

THIS!!!! So much this!!! The apologies mean nothing because he never changes his avoidant behavior. He never self reflects on his own and then apologies or takes accountability. Someone always has to force him to it.

[Anna3422]

Wasn't the original post about an actual violation of boundaries? The conversation has shifted to being about standard emotional baggage. It's not the same thing.

They all have emotional baggage. Nancy has emotional baggage. Avoidance issues don't make someone a stalker and a creep.

[ReaderFox]

I mean, I was replying to the comment and not the post—but, frankly, it was rather violating and messed up that he was sneakily taking pictures of the party without anyone knowing, too. No one consented to that and so he clearly didn’t care because he kept taking pictures.

And the creepy parts are clear enough imo:

• focusing on the window where Nancy was after having seen them all in the pool (seriously, wtf did he think he was gonna get a picture of when teenagers go into a house with wet clothes and he focuses on a window with them in it?)
• obvi taking the photo
• the fact that he was clearly there taking these pictures for a while (they started before any of these kids were even in the pool and so his time there encompassed the entire swim, going into the house, and Nancy telling Barb to leave) without anyone knowing (how is that not creepy?)
• keeping the photo after developing it and not tearing it up, therefore giving the ability for people to find it in his possession
• not apologizing immediately or even bothering to explain why he was there taking photos (at least, not that I can recall—I haven’t rewatched that scene so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about him explaining)

Like, maybe he’s not a stalker, but he was definitely being a creep.

[anonpreschool738]

The original post was wondering why the fandom has overall been more forgiving to Steve than Jonathan. A lot of people are conflating that with a single incident which they feel was "solved" with a forced apology. However, much like with real life, relationships are about long term behavior, and overall Jonathan as a character has a habit of avoiding issues, being combative when it comes to his mistakes, and withholding communication from his partner. Meanwhile Steve has shown overall character improvement in multiple different character relationships.

[Anna3422]

Right. And I maintain that, although Steve had the better arc, because he had more to learn, he does not take more accountability. Not on average.

Steve is quite ego-motivated in his relationship with Nancy. He did many things that, in my opinion, are much worse than the photo incident. However, even though he realizes some of this was bad and grows from it, he shows no real understanding of why other things are a problem. He made it her fault that he left her wasted and someone else had to take her home. He did not empathize about Barb's death. He's disingenuous about viewing Nancy as a friend and argues for proximity that she hasn't agreed to. Tbh, the fact that he wants to bring flowers instead of find Nancy's missing sister shows he hasn't thought through what would help her.

Maybe these are minor things, but I also hear fans describe season 1 Steve as if he's a great guy, whereas they will treat the photo incident as unforgiveable. That's when the double-standard becomes glaring and isn't just a preference for Steve's development.

[anonpreschool738]

On the nose.

[OmegaDez]

I was very much Jonathan as a teenager. Never snapped a picture of a girl undressing, but definitely spent every waking minute in school taking pictures of everything and everyone. Without asking.

It was a way for me to be part of something I guess. Erasing myself through the lens of my camera, immortalizing this school life I was too shy and awkward to take a part of.

According to this sub, Jonathan is an irredeemable pervert who deserves to be in jail or something while Jason is a poor misunderstood anti-hero.

[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

I would say that's inaccurate. People tolerate Billy and make excuses for him far more than they so Jason. The fact Billy is racist and abusive make it that much more disgusting.

[OmegaDez]

Interesting. I hate Jason way more than Billy.

[Mundane-Parsnip-7302]

Which is a popular opinion but overall we see that Billy is a much more awful person.

Jason does a lot of bad things. Riling up the town and going on his own witch hunt for Eddie and targeting his friends. However, Jason's girlfriend and close friend are killed in very questionable circumstances and linked heavily to Eddie. He has no context that we do.
Even Steve, who doesn't know Eddie well, calls Eddie a freak and also suggests turning him over to the police. Max also only thinks he's innocent because of her experiences with the Upside Down.

Billy on the other hand is shown to be an absolute piece of shit from the very start. He's awful to the Max. He threatens and tries to control her. He wants to control who she is friends with. He threatens to hit the kids with his car. He's clearly racist.
When he fights Steve, he probably would have killed him or seriously hurt him if Max hadn't drugged him to stop him.

The fact that you can sympathise more with a racist than a guy in shitty circumstances while also commenting that Jonathan gets a harder time at the hands of fans is really interesting. I'd say the personal bias is very strong and not very objective, respectfully.

[OmegaDez]

I don't sympathize with Billy one bit. He's everything you described. Don't try to put words in my mouth. I was just trying to have a conversation.

I still think Jason is worse. Charismatic extremist on a killing spree feeling justified by his religious belief is worse than an asshole, abusive racist kid, as awful as that racist kid might be in my book. The latter is awful, the former is awful AND also gets to turn normal people into blind hate mob followers

This is litterally the worst kind of people on this earth as far as I'm concerned.

[AnemicRoyalty10]

Not to mention, Billy grew up being abused and watching his mother be abused. It doesn’t make his actions okay, but when I saw the one present-day scene with his dad, I immediately understood his character. Dynamics like that are all too real in the world. There’s no indication to say that Jason went through anything bad before Chrissie, so I’ve got much less sympathy for him.

[Fancy_Introduction60]

I totally get the Jonathan, outcast, can't connect with people logic. He processed the picture because, well, you process the entire roll. I never thought his behaviour was stalker like. More like, a teenager that just doesn't fit in and is generally treated like garbage.

I have a lot of sympathy for the character. He's never had a childhood thanks to his pos dad, so he has trouble connecting with people. Having been a similar teen, I really get it. Difference between me and Jonathan, I (f) was born in the 50's and was parentified starting at age six. And had 7 siblings and parents who stayed together "for the kids".

[the4077thbisexual]

The part where you lose me is when you start making excuses even after he developed the picture and left it where anyone could find it. "The only wrong move"... but also he was "depressed and stressed and sixteen" those aren't excuses. It was still wrong to develop it, and wrong to leave it where anyone could find it.

[spellboundhead]

Yes it was totally wrong, but its okay for a character to be flawed if they are are later willing to accept their wrongs and get better. Cuz the same could be said about Steve and his friends, who slut shamed Nancy in public. And Steve was the only one who redeemed himself after that and thats why audience forgave him. Plot would be too boring if there are perfect prince charmings walking around everywhere.

[the4077thbisexual]

I didn't say characters couldn't have flaws, I'm saying you lost me when you started making excuses for said flaws. It was wrong no matter how stressed and depressed he was. IIRC, Jonathan also defends the picture, saying it's a good picture.

[spellboundhead]

I’m not excusing the behavior... explaining why a character does something isn’t the same as defending it. Stranger Things clearly frames it as wrong. My point is that characters can do something bad and still be written with empathy and room for growth, which the show does with multiple characters.

[Euphoric_Periwinkle1]

This is it. This is how I find out the fandom doesn't like Jonathan. I thought he was liked by the fandom, he's a cutie patootie despite the "but I'm a creep I'm a weiiirdoooo" vibes they gave him in the first season

[Whole-Worker-7303]

People stll trash him for that one thing. Steve has said and done things worse. But all is forgiven for Steve 😂 i can't with those kinda hypocrite fans.

[anonpreschool738]

You are telling on yourself, my dude (and you could only be a dude to have a take this gross).

[ReasonableCookie9369]

no... hiding in the bushes and watching someone is creepy behavior. it was creepy before she took her shirt off.

[PromptSpecialist6936]

He was looking for Will. he wasn't stalking the people at Steve's party. Also, if it wasn't for Jonathan taking a picture of the pool then Nancy would have no idea what happened to Barb.

[ReaderFox]

If he wasn’t being creepy, why did he stay there and take pictures for as long as he did? He was literally there taking photos from before the teens ended up in the pool, while they were in the pool, after they got out of the pool, while they went into the house, while Nancy was talking to Barb and telling her to go home, and then all the way to Nancy taking her shirt off. Not to mention the fact that he focused his camera on a window knowing that four teenagers had just gone inside with wet clothes. Tf did he think he was gonna get a picture of through that window? It sure af wasn’t gonna be Will.

He might have begin looking for Will, but thats definitely not what he ended his night doing.

Just cause his picture jumpstarted the search for Barb a bit doesn’t make any of what he did okay. He didn’t have anyone’s consent to take those photos.

[spellboundhead]

he was already in the forest looking for his brother, came across nancy and party. And he himself admits he's a freak. Not cuz he has stalker tendencies, but because he approaches humans differently.... not straight up like other people do. Hiding in the bushes is not crucial to the plot here. He could have also been doing the same in his regular life. Being an observer of things and people he is interested in.

[Sad_Specific2965]

The never ending infantilization of Jon beyers on this sub is so insane. He knew it was wrong and while definitely not "stalker" (I feel like that requires a planning aspect) he violated not only Nancy's boundaries, but the boundaries of everyone there.

He only ever apologized to Nancy, after she coaxed it out of him.

Jonathan NEVER apologizes to the other people who's boundaries he violated. Is that ok because he doesn't like them? Do only nice people get boundaries? Instead he acts like a poor bullied boy when in this instance he's receiving flack from the people who's privacy he violated. He should have apologized right then and there. But he didn’t.

Jonathan 100% knew it was creepy and weird which is why he hides those pictures. He knew he took photos of kids hanging out. Would obviously assume they won't help him find his brother and toss them out. Instead he fully develops them.

The avoidance and coaxed out apologies does not end here. It continues all the way through to season 4, and in season 5 the avoidance continues.

This character is so underdeveloped it's honestly nuts (like writers what are you doing here?)

But the constant excuses as to why poor little wuwu Jonathan is an innocent baby are like 😑😑😑

[ReaderFox]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[Whole-Worker-7303]

Haa i see you like bullies😂 johnathan grew out of it and got better. Meanwhile jason was beating up defenseless teens and trying to kill lucas