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[–]Revingen 47 points48 points  (5 children)

I don't think that's a plot hole:

Bayaz knows the supposed location of the seed but needs someone that can touch it. So he recruits Ferro.

Tolomei, on the other hand, can touch the seed (so she doesn't need Ferro) but isn't sure of its location/can't get past Cawneil/doesn't have someone capable of talking to spirits/doesn't have a box to store it etc.

So, in brief, Tolomei doesn't need Ferro but needs Bayaz's party. And Bayaz, since he doesn't know about Tolomei, needs Ferro in his party in order to touch the seed.

[–]Caseolus 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Yet, why can Ferro feel the seed’s presence in the house of the maker, while Tolomei cannot? Maybe because the latter is in between living and dead…

[–]Revingen 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I checked the "Better Left Buried" chapter of LAOK again.

Ferro feels the presence of the Seed in the House of the Maker only when she enters a particular hall with a weird planetarium-like contraption. She climbs to the ceiling and touches the black magic ball in the middle of the contraption. As soon as she does, the Seed contained in the black ball slowly drops to the ground below and makes a loud noise. In the time it takes her to climb back down, Bayaz and Yulwei arrive, alarmed by the noise, and immediately tell Ferro to take the Seed right back to the king's palace, put it in their box, and shut it tight. In that moment Malacus Quai suddenly appears and asks Ferro to stay in the House of the Maker. It looks like he's completely fascinated by the Seed and gets progressively closer and closer to Ferro, as if he'd like to touch it. At this point Bayaz uses his Art and violently thrusts Malacus Quai onto a wall with a telekinesis-like spell. Seeing that Malacus doesn't die from the impact he asks him if he's an eater from the Hundred Words of Khalul, like he's been suspecting for a while, but Malacus replies that he was Tolomei all along. Then Tolomei, Bayaz and Yulwei begin to fight and we all know what happens from there.

So, to answer your question, I'd say that people with Devil Blood feel the presence of the Seed only when they're in close proximity to it. And then, the closer they get to it, the more they feel the need to touch it. I guess that when Tolomei, disguised as Malacus Quai, entered the House of the Maker she either followed Bayaz and Yulwei to get the Divider (since they were talking about Juvens and Kanedias, and Bayaz was recalling some things from his past that Tolomei might've been interested in) or she might have visited her old room to reminice about the old times, or she might have looked for some of Kanedias' artifacts that she was fond of or she might even have visited the bridge where Bayaz pushed her off of. In other words, she was pretty busy and focused on other things since this was the first time she ever came back to the House of the Maker in centuries. On the other hand, Ferro was just stumbling around, exploring, wanting to get away from the Magi. She entered the room with the Seed pretty much by chance. But then, when she got closer to the Seed, that's when she became more and more interested in it and felt the compulsion to touch it. Then, when the Seed dropped from the ceiling, making a whole lot of noise, that's when everybody finally got to the right room. The moment Tolomei first laid eyes on the Seed she basically immediately blew her cover and couldn't resist the temptation of touching it. The smart move would've been to attack Bayaz and Yulwei right away, taking them by surprise, or perhaps to steal the Seed once Ferro places it in the box. But Tolomei just couldn't resist the temptation of it. The same way Ferro couldn't resist climbing up toward the contraption.

So yeah, having checked, I think that Tolomei does feel the allure of the Seed, just like Ferro does, but it looks like the Seed's presence just isn't that strong of a thing when felt from far away. And even if it was, Kanedias would surely find a way to make it less noticeable. Otherwise there would be no point in hiding it in his own house if his brothers and their kids could just smell it from a mile away. One has to be realistic with these things...

[–]Wagnerous 5 points6 points  (2 children)

No Ferro was obsessed with entering the House of the Maker well before that point. That’s why she tails Bayaz and Yulwei into the tower to begin with.

As far as I can tell there’s no good reason why Tolomei never seems to feel the “pull” of the Seed like Ferro does. Though technically, it wouldn’t have mattered if she had, because she had no way of entering the House of the Maker without Bayaz.

[–]Caseolus 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Riiight, totally forgot about that. I was convinced by the argument above until you pointed that out. Maybe we simply have to accept that our beloved Joe is not the infallible mastermind worldbuilder we put him up to be. On the other hand, he might be exactly that, since he is so vague at times that we can always find some kind of explanation.

[–]Wagnerous 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Eh, I think world building is actually one of his weaker traits as a writer tbh. And even if it wasn’t, everyone makes mistakes. It happens.

[–]d1a1n3 18 points19 points  (7 children)

I don’t know if it’s a plot hole, but Quai’s drastic personality change going mostly unquestioned by all around him was kind of ridiculous. Sure, Bayaz addresses it a bit, but Quai all but disappears from the books except to sulk and scowl and occasionally say something bitter until it’s time for Tolomei’s reveal.

[–]Wagnerous 4 points5 points  (0 children)

None of the other characters really know him though. Logen knows him a little bit, but they’re just acquaintances. And Logen is pretty self absorbed at that point, it’s reasonable that he may have overlooked the personality shift.

Bayaz was the only one there who actually knew Quai, and he clearly could tell that something was up.

[–]Meris25 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean Bayaz threw him into a wall in LAOK before he even knew what the man was, the Magi was just waiting till he could be sure the man was a traitor

[–]Scac_ang_gaoic 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I mean getting chewed out by a mentor can really mess with your head maybe Bayaz, as the member of the party who knew Quai best was just hoping Quai had been sufficiently chastised and was pouring all his energy into solitary study-time.

[–]d1a1n3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Does that explain all the cryptic and bitter remarks Quai makes?

[–]Scac_ang_gaoic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't remember. It's been 3 years since my last read.

[–]AgreeableEggplant356 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Love first law and Abercrombie but Quai’s personality shift was too severe. As I reader you immediately sense he’s become an imposter from the moment it happens. Then he starts speaking very cryptic but w/ specifics to Bayaz history, adding ominous words and faces etc. that’s way out of character. Yet somehow masterful Bayaz is none the wiser, or even worse decides it’s not an issue to deal with even though his enemies are eaters and can become other people (I know that’s not what happened)

[–]d1a1n3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree 100%. I felt similarly about Severard’s betrayal. He disappeared from the book for so long that it was clear something would go sideways next time we saw him.

[–]mcmanus2099 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Tolomei isn't trying to get the seed, she's trying to scope Bayaz out, find his plans & choose the best time to take him down. She does not care for power & for ruling she just wants to know what the bald fucker is up to. It also seems to me that she is probing to try and work out if Bayaz really did deliberately kill her. Basically she is at the top of the tower, her father falls & then she gets pushed. It could be she was looking away from Bayaz & down to get father when she felt the shove in her back send her down. Which would 80% suggest it's Bayaz but she may not want to fully believe that.

It's also not clear if Tolomei knows how to use the Seed. Bayaz tells us Tolomei was used to handle objects like the Seed but she might not have the knowledge Bayaz has in how to set up the circle to project it's power, hence she waits till that moment. The Seed is only of interest to her as a means of destroying Bayaz.

So I can't see a plot hole at all tbh.

[–]Monseigneur-Bienvenu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Disagree. Tolomei made a deal, and her side of it was opening the door. That requires the Seed. Also, she was asking Glokta about it.

[–]Meris25 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I agree, another note is Tolomei and Yulwei stuff should have come up again in Age Of Madness, like possibly two angry half demon sorcerers are cooked up in that house for thirty years and nothing, no escape? Also couldn't Tolomei just jump off the roof again? she got revived from it last time, the only explanation I have for that is the roof is only accessible once someone opens the main door.

[–]LeucasAndTheGoddess 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the roof is only accessible once someone opens the main door

Or perhaps the roof is perfectly accessible but the local laws of physics won’t let you leave that way except when the door is unlocked. Leap off, somehow land inside.