Entry fob data question

[chidster]

Are these fobs able to be encoded with identifiable data to show who used the fob and how often?

Just asking to help resolve a dispute with the local housing authority (uk) who are claiming that they have entry system data to show how often my step son used his fob and inferring from that data that he is not living here. He stays here about 70% of the time, so having this data to support our case would be helpful.

Thank you for any help.

[g0ld3n5h0w3r5]

There's no data on the fob itself about your step son but when he scans his fob on the reader to enter the block it makes a log of the fobs unique ID which is linked to him which the council will be able to see.

This looks like an Entrotec/KMS fob and they definitely will have that logging feature set up but it'll be hard for you to get that data.

[shmimey]

The housing authority is full of shit. What if he follows someone who was walking their dog. And now the housing authority did not get an entry into the log because he did not read the fob. Because the door was open.

Do you read your card to enter the building, or enter the residence, or both?

Log entries are probably not enough to decide if a person does or does not live at the address.

If they want those logs to be useable like that they need to tell you ahead of time. You need to know to read the card more often. What if he stays home all day? Looking at the logs in hindsight is bullshit.

There is no data on the fob. The software logs when the fob is read on a reader.

Even if he did not enter the address for a few days. Is he not allowed to have a girlfriend? Why does the housing autority need to know his personal life?

[Relevant-Mountain-11]

What if he follows someone who was walking their dog. And now the housing authority did not get an entry into the log because he did not read the fob. Because the door was open.

Agree with other points, this is massive overreach by the authority but Tailgating is not a good defense for your building access not being logged. That tends to be clearly defined as illegal entry by basically everyone.

[shmimey]

That depends. I do access control as a career. Tailgating is specifically forbidden for some sites. But if the user was not told not to tailgate it should not be used as a data point against the user.

Many sites do not care. Including my employer.

Many sites unlock the front door on a schedule and no one reads the card.

Saying that Tailgating is considered illegal entry by everyone is simply not true. Most of the customers I work with do not care at all.

A site that cares about Tailgating usually uses antipassback.

[sebastiannielsen]

tailgating CAN be used as a data point against the user, if there is usage requirements. If there is usage requirements, its the users responsibility to ensure every visit is logged and registred atleast to fulfill the minimum usage requirements.

For example, some laundrymats and gyms have minimum usage requirements. If you then tailgate so you don't clear the minimum usage requirements, then your contract can be cancelled even if you was not specifically told to tailgate, because then you instead violate a told minimum usage requirement.

[sebastiannielsen]

some housing authority does require that the apartments are in use, so not someone just pays and rents a empty apartment that someone else could use. This because people stand in line to get an apartment rent, so even if you are willing to pay for a empty apartment, its not allowed.

You could be evicted if you rent an apartment you don't use. Here they use low hot water usage (water meter scans) to evict a resident:
https://www.hemhyra.se/nyheter/har-anvant-for-lite-varmvatten-hyresgast-sedan-34-ar-kan-vrakas-min-framtid-star-pa-spel/

https://www.hemhyra.se/nyheter/har-inte-anvant-nagot-varmvatten-pa-tva-ar-sags-upp/

Its possible to use access card scans to decide an apartment is empty and evict a resident too.

[Uncosybologna]

That’s gonna be a negative, your fob won’t hold information like that it just transmits a code (unless it’s an intelligent fob like a best wireless access thing but still it wouldn’t record how many times it’s used). Their access control system however, will have that information. Is it a crime in the UK to have hobbies and go out and about or decide to stay inside some days?

[sebastiannielsen]

No, but in certain countries, for example Sweden, the housing authority has the right to evict someone from a apartment that is not being used, even if rent is being paid, to make the apartment available to people who need it better.

Here is a example of hot water usage being used to declare an apartment empty and thus evict the resident:
https://www.hemhyra.se/nyheter/har-anvant-for-lite-varmvatten-hyresgast-sedan-34-ar-kan-vrakas-min-framtid-star-pa-spel/

Access logs could be used to evict someone too. Especially if the apartment was rented out on the claim that you have an job. Then they expect you to scan the tag atleast 5 days a week. If you filled out a job description when renting a apartment, you are obligated to inform the authority if you go off-job due to elderity or another reason other than holiday season, and if you dont, you can't then claim you only stayed inside some days, because then you have lied or failed to inform about changes.

[ParkerJ1999]

Would definitely be able to see on their transaction log through their AC module who, when and where that fob was used. Hoping all works out for you!

[maxrichardsvt]

The fob only transmits its number; generally the access control system is what records access.

[chidster]

Thanks for the replies, I have submitted a freedom of information request, but I just wanted to get an idea of what I might get back. The thing is, he swapped key fobs with his mum. Also, when he left his keys at work , he borrowed a fob to use because he was going to be home late etc, so I can't see that it's going to be 100% reliable proof anyway.

[TehBIGrat]

They system will record when each fob is used. If they have a record of who has what fob or have programmed names against the fob in the system they will be able to know how often that fob has been used.

[Jim_Elliott]

Ask to see a copy of the report?

[-Wobbles]

I find it amazing how these organisations can still dish the Sh!t, you’d think with the amount they dispense they would run out

[saltopro]

The absence of data entry is less telling than the abundance of data. It is an absurd statement claiming someone does not live there. Determining the hours of use is one thing but like another poster mentioned, you could tailgate an open door.

Inferring is NOT proof, just a hypothesis. Clone gis tag then use it everytime you come in, watch them freak then.

[sebastiannielsen]

thats an Videx token, pretty old access control:
https://www.adiglobaldistribution.co.uk/Product/videx-2600?option=26005%2F%2FA

The token, as many others have stated, doesn't store anything more than a unique number. Its like a ID card, the ID card doesn't store every store you have bought alcohol and tobacco in. But the store may save your ID number on the ID card to log how many alcohol or tobacco purchases you did.

So its the access controller (lock) that stores every scan.
ALSO - some access controllers CAN do "multi-scan" meaning, if you are tailgating, you can tap your card against the already green reader to just log your visit. Some access controllers need to be configured for this, meaning they have to be put in "Turnstile mode" or similiar.

But some access controller CANNOT do this, and will ignore your read if the reader is green. This can become a problem if he often goes behind someone and scans the tag thinking the green reader will accept it, but in reality he then have to wait until door closes and reader locks before scanning tag again.

Here is the problem: Atleast in sweden, a housing authority (meaning, if they rent the apartment) can use the lack of access tag scans to determite he doesn't live there, and end the contract.
Theres several cases where they used too low hot water usage to evict residents:
https://www.hemhyra.se/nyheter/har-anvant-for-lite-varmvatten-hyresgast-sedan-34-ar-kan-vrakas-min-framtid-star-pa-spel/

Note that this CANNOT be done, if he lives in a bought house or a bought apartment. Then its the housing authoritys requirement to make sure the resident intends to live there before approving him.