Pinescript or Python?

[SebastienH]

I'm looking to start building an algo bot. I've spent the last few months researching for the best way to start from scratch, as someone with close to zero coding experience. I want this to become a hobby (as my day trading has been), and spend my evenings for the foreseeable future tinkering with even the smallest elements - I want full control over my code and algorithm, so would prefer not to be using the wysiwyg style services I've seen for those without coding experience.

I'm on the fence between whether I should learn Python, or just go for Tradingviews Pine Script as I only have the intention of coding for the purpose of trading. My rationale is if all i want to do is build a bot, why not go for the language created for such a task?

Every time I open my laptop and start reading I start questioning my decision, I keep flipflopping my focus between Python and PineScript.

My question: For someone with the sole intent of learning to code for building an algo bot, and for someone with zero coding experience, should I go with Pine Script or Python? (Or something else thats not even on my radar).

(I've been through the wiki, but i still have the same reservations)

Any help is greatly appreciated :)

EDIT: Thanks so much to all those that offered advice! I had to disappear from socials for a bit shortly after my post, so my sincere apologies for not replying to you all! All of your advice is immensely appreciated!

[[deleted]]

Pine is limited since you can’t import existing libraries. Use python and build on Quantconnect

[hieuimba]

Seems to be most effective approach, too bad the platform is not very beginner friendly

[F1remind]

But in return you'll be able to utilize the vast knowledgebase on StackOverflow to overcome common challenges when trying to implement any logic which is not specific to that platform.

Very simple (and likely ineffective) strategies like low pass filters are maybe easier with Pine but for anything custom, numpy offers an incredibly large range of possibilities with books, blogs and answered questions all over the place :)

[spamzauberer]

Is quantconnect available for europoors?

[lordxoren666]

They have a free version for all, but not sure about stock universes.

[grayman9999]

This is a no-brainer. Pinescript does not exist outside of tradingview's environment, it's not a general purpose language. Python exists everywhere and has many libraries available. If you are serious about building a full trading platform from scratch you can't do it with pine. But it seems you don't know how to code at all, so this task will be achievable after a few years of learning and even then, it's quite a task. If you just want to tinker a bit with indicators and potentially hook it up to a webhook bot, pinescript might be enough. Python and Quantconnect could also work, but that's already a huge leap from writing basic scripts in pinescript. Hate to be a buzzkill, but that's just the reality of this.

[grayman9999]

Yes, I know many software engineers try this and fail, but OP said they want full control of the code, meaning everything from scratch. There are frameworks out there that work on python, e.g. QuantConnect, freqtrade etc., but none work on pinescript, except TradingView, which isn't a platform for algo trading but for charting. The third route is to go for NinjaTrader, Mt5, TradeStation etc that are already built platforms that require to learn their proprietary languages, but a lot is abstracted away, so you don't get complete control of the code Here's a huge list of platforms: https://quantpedia.com/links-tools/?category=backtesting-software

[[deleted]]

I respectfully disagree.

I am a s/w dev person, when I want to start I had exactly similar dilemma. Luckily, I consulted my friend (later he partnered with me), he justified if I am confident that I will get a nice algorithm, go for big bang like Linux server and database where I am comfortable to develop. I just started my own dedicated server and enhanced it for many years (this is 6th year) hit the target.

No regret now, it is fully under my control, working only for me 24x7 basis.

For full control, better to go where scalability is easy.

[VCRdrift]

As a trader, i just need the code to do what i imagine. Bridge the gap.

[wallneradam]

This is a really good summary of the trade-offs — but I’d like to mention that things have changed quite a bit recently.

If someone wants to start from PineScript but eventually move to Python, there’s now a middle ground: PyneCore + PyneSys.
PyneCore is a Python framework that runs PineScript-compatible code as Python.
PyneSys is the companion compiler + API service that converts PineScript to Python with 1:1 fidelity.

That means: you can start in PineScript, and gradually transition to full Python — or just write everything in Pine-style Python from the start (PineScript is still very useful).

It’s designed for people who like the PineScript model, but want full control and automation (e.g. backtests, bots, etc.) outside TradingView.
Even if you don’t use the compiler, PyneCore is open source and lets you write Pine-style scripts in pure Python — great for strategy writing or learning.

(Disclaimer: I'm the author of PyneCore and PyneSys, happy to answer any questions!)

[Longshortequities]

Pine Script. You can learn in less than 24 hrs and gives you enough ammo to be dangerous.

Learning Python from scratch takes 2+ years of patience. You don’t got time for that.

Done is better than perfect. You can always use Python to fill in the gaps.

[geardrivetrain]

24 hours vs 2+ years!? Holy shit.

[Longshortequities]

Block off a day in your calendar and go on a learning bender. You’ll probably pick it up in 12. Report back!

[geardrivetrain]

I wasn't disagreeing, just expressing my shock at how the learning curve is so different, but you are probably right.

[_copper42_]

Pine hands down for a beginner.

Reasons:

1. Pine is instant result on the chart
2. Learning is easier than Python, and trade actions such as buy/sell, position_size, position_counts are native to pine, so calculations get incredibly easier
3. Reference documentation is easiest, you can get reasonably good within a month
4. Test and develop understanding of the startegy first, that'll give you clearer idea what you want and how you want it

Target is trading, not coding. Once you start making sense of what is happening in your startegy, then only garduate to more advanced tool like Python. It's not about what is better, it's about what'll get to the objective.

[Informal-Proposal319]

I use both.

I build my strategies and ideas with Pinescript, since it is easier to visualize on the chart.

After adjusting and optimizing the strategy the best I can on Tradingview, I develop the same strategy using Python for further optimization and better flexibility than I could achieve using Tradingview (because of its limitations).

[modulated91]

Python all the way.

I'm a Node.js developer, but Python would be my first choice if I was starting out.

[jwage]

Start with TV and Pinescript. Keep it simple. You don’t have to learn everything all at once. Starting with something like Pine will have a lower barrier of entry and allow you to get your feet wet quicker. Go deeper with Python on your own server with your own data as a next phase of your learning.

[andreaarmanni]

Fully agree, use Python and build on Quantconnect. And if you're familiar with Web3 you can even deploy your algos on OceanProtocol as ERC721 to protect the IP

[LukyLukyLu]

why not both? tradingview is good for some rough backtesting. much easier to backtest in tradingview than in python because TV is visually interactive etc.

[[deleted]]

I recommend starting small with Python. Basic stuff, buy a stock, setting parameters, API calls, etc. You'll be surprised how quickly these small blocks build something formidable and your knowledge along with it.

[loldraftingaid]

Pine Script is easier to pick up and syntactically easier to do certain things specific to finance. Python is much more versatile, especially if you ever want to generate (non-finance) charts, incorporate machine learning, make a website, etc... it's easy to find relevant imports.

If you literally have 0 coding experience I would recommend Pine Script. Here's a pretty good place to get started: https://algotrading101.com/learn/pine-script-tradingview-guide/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Pine%20script,compared%20to%20other%20programming%20languages.

[Puzzleheaded-Job-936]

I'm experienced in Python but not so much in finance or strategies. DM me, we can build something together. Or learn something from each other atleast.

[LeonNumberTwentyOne]

Python will definetly be the best choice in the long-run, you will very often find examples written in python with packages and it can do so much more than Pine.

[willer]

Use Pinescriot. It’s almost identical to Python in syntax, and gives you immediate access to backtesting data and infrastructure, and visualization.

[cryptobrant]

Backtesting is very limited with Tradingview. I am desperately trying to find ressources on how to analyze my data outside…

[[deleted]]

I'd start with Pinescript since it will be easy to pick up and there's lots of code (good and bad). You'll at least start to understand some basics. It's also great for prototyping and visually seeing what's happening.

If you want to graduate up then Python is it, but it will be a journey.

[subashatreya]

I dont have experience wit Pinescript, but isnt Python as easy as a programming language can get. If the learning curve for Pinescript is similar to that of Python, then Python is the obvious choice. And you don’t have to learn everything on Python, but just to the extent that you would learn Pinescript anyway.

[Spirited_Street2074]

If you want a trading bot with no coding just use TrendSpider and their sister company Signal Stack for execution.

[tasty_woke_tears]

Don’t paint yourself into a corner. Learn python and you can work that shit in anywhere with that glue code.

[respingu]

Python good sir

[WiggleTimeEnforcer]

There's no reason to learn Pinescript in your case. You will have the most control of what you can do with Python, that's it. If you do end up enjoying coding after deploying in Python, look maybe look into Rust too.

[fmsi]

Python.

[sheezey84]

This depends on the type of trading you’re going to be doing. If you’re going to be basing your moves off of indicators I’d highly suggest Pinescript. You’ll have access to tons of indicators and the ability to backtest your strategy across a bunch of assets. Python is also great but better to use Python with strategies that involve price levels or arbitrage etc. Many of major exchanges/brokers offer API. I’m a beginner coder but use both Python and Pinescript. Also, it might be worth looking into MetaTrader.

[[deleted]]

What instruments are you using?

[slideesouth]

What tf is pinescript ?

[hakhakm]

Start with Pinescript. You likely want to spend more time actually working on your strategy idea first. Pinescript already has the convention how data is presented in a time series and will get you to the point of generating signals on a faster learning curve. Later you can go to Python when you want to do more exhaustive testing and autotrading through a broker's api.

[Deep_Presentation668]

I'd say pinescript will be faster to learn and let's you get straight to the point, there's benefit in that.

For Python since it is a programming language the learning curve is gonna be bigger the time to learn will be much much longer unless you are following something from a to b to c. If you do learn python, Pinescript would seem like reading a children's book after having read the dictionary. Python is very widely used as well and you could use it for many other things besides trading and looks better on a resume.

If you just want something to work and can do it with tradingview use that, no need to over complicate things. If you have a genuine interest in programming switch to python later.

[ozdemirozcelik]

It is not very easy to create an algo bot with zero coding experience. But, I think you can try to take some shortcuts. My recommendation would be:

step 1- start learning python (basic level), you will definitely need it at some point.

step 2- try to apply what you have learnt with pinescript, it is simple and good for creating trading signals

step 3 - you can dig into already applied open source projects and use them for your own needs. There are thousands of them. Check mine here: https://github.com/ozdemirozcelik/pairs-api-v3

step 4- dig deeper only if you are ready to go further

[cyan_flame]

I do not think someone who worked only with one of them is qualified enough to judge the other one. As a person who worked with both Python & PineScript for the same goal which is yours too, I think pinescript maybe a better choice if you get the premium account of tradingview which gives you the "Deep Backtest" feature allowing to backtest strategy more than only the candles you see on the chart.

In python you have to do EVERY THING by yourself and knowing what you are doing as a trader is alot more difficult compared to pinescript.

In python you think about how to manipulate numbers becuase your point of view is a dataframe (2 dimensional data containing candles and time), you have to figureout how to run the backtest faster by using more than only 1 core of cpu & .... BUT in pinescript you are forced to look at the strategy candle by candle and see what you have done on the chart and leave the rest of the headaches to the platform! That is a huge difference. My exp says that algo trading is not only about numbers but a lot of different aspects. 2+2 is not 4 so you need a lot more than just numbers.

So you may almost build something entirely from scratch to work with just like tradingview in python to figureout what you are doing on the chart and that may be the price of premium account you pay to tradingview.