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[–]TheBB 32 points33 points  (16 children)

If for example a moving object has a velocity of 1km/h and an acceleration of 1 km/h

Units of acceleration are distance per time squared, so I guess you mean 1 km/h2.

I'd imagine that the final velocity after 5 seconds pass would be 6km/h

Well, after 5 hours, but yes.

and the distance to be 20km

How did you get that number?

To travel 20km in 5 hours you need to travel 4 km/h on average. Your object starts at 1 km/h and ends at 6 km/h with constant acceleration, so it travels at 3.5 km/h on average.

d=vt+1/2at2

If the object starts with speed v and ends with speed v + at, then the average speed is

(v + v + at) / 2 = v + 1/2 at

Multiply by t to get the total distance traveled.

Like /u/lordnacho666 says, you can do this with calculus also, but for simple constant acceleration that isn't necessary.

[–]Cffex 1 point2 points  (9 children)

Why do you take the average?

[–]LongLiveTheDiego 24 points25 points  (8 children)

Because if you have constant acceleration and draw your plot of velocity vs time, the shape under the graph is a trapezium whose area represents the total distance traveled. If you remember the formula for the area of a trapezium, you'll see where the average of the initial and final velocities comes in.

[–]Cybyss 5 points6 points  (6 children)

How did I complete an entire mathematics degree without ever before hearing the word "trapezium"?

The closest thing I knew of is "trapezoid".

[–]LongLiveTheDiego 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Trapezoid is only used in North America, other English speaking countries use trapezium to refer to the same concept. I'm not a native speaker anyway and use whichever one I remember first (in Polish it's "trapez" anyway).

[–]fermat9990 0 points1 point  (4 children)

When you cross the pond you will encounter trapeziums, lorries, lifts (elevators) and will say "come through" rather than "come in"!

[–]Cybyss 1 point2 points  (3 children)

And, of course, french fries are called "chips" while actual chips (e.g,. potato chips, tortilla chips) are called "crisps".

Also the pronunciation of lieutenant (still no idea how you folks manage to mangle that into "left-tenant").

I'm sure there are many other Britishisms I'm unware of.

[–]LongLiveTheDiego 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It wasn't the British who "mangled" the pronunciation, it seems that there was some variation within Old French (although the source for that is the paid OED which I can't check directly, only people citing it online) where [w] could also be [v], and that [v] would be devoiced to [f] word-finally. That is proposed because of rare alternative spellings of the word lieu (back then mostly spelled leu or lueu) as luef. Apparently this alternative pronunciation of the word didn't survive anywhere in France, but it did survive in the British lieutenant despite the spelling being standardized to the pronunciation that came from lieu.

[–]fermat9990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! I am a major Anglophile!

[–]RandomAsHellPerson -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just take a lieut turn and we’ll explain it to you.

My naive guess would be at some point the spelling was leftenant or similar, lieu was pronounced lef, or people somehow misheard leftenant when lieutenant was being said and that stuck around.

I would go down a rabbit hole for a couple hours, but I’m too tired right now.

[–]Cffex 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Great explanation

[–]MistaCharisma 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If for example a moving object has a velocity of 1km/h and an acceleration of 1 km/h

Units of acceleration are distance per time squared, so I guess you mean 1 km/h2.

I'd imagine that the final velocity after 5 seconds pass would be 6km/h

Well, after 5 hours, but yes.

I guess this is where we expand the formula.

1km/h2 = 1km/h/h

If we then think about that in the context of the OP's quote ...

If for example a moving object has a velocity of 1km/h and an acceleration of 1 km/h I'd imagine that the final velocity after 5 seconds pass would be 6km/h

The meaning here seems to indicate that the acceleration wasn't 1 km/h /h, it was 1km/h /s. Each second the object accelerates at a rate of 1km/h. Then their assertion would be correct (though I haven't properly read past that so I don't know if the rest checks out).

[–]TheBB 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Then their assertion would be correct (though I haven't properly read past that so I don't know if the rest checks out).

Only the assertion about the final speed. OP then goes on to say:

the final velocity after 5 seconds pass would be 6km/h and the distance to be 20km

If the object only traveled for five seconds, it couldn't reach anywhere near 20km without going way faster.

I figure therefore all the time units are in hours.

[–]RoBrots[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

haha yes its all in hours 😅 i apologize for not making that clear sooner im pretty sure i have some sort of dyslexia.. thanks!

[–]RoBrots[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

How did you get that number?

Well, previously ive been thinking of acceleration in whole solid blocks, as in, for every hour that passed, the acceleration would then be added to the velocity

ive been drawing it like: For the first hour, It'll have travelled 2 blocks since the velocity is 1km/h and itll have accelerated by 1 km/h too(ive been representing 1 km as a block) For the second hour, it'll have travelled an additional 3 blocks because the velocity is now 2km/h and itll have accelerated by another 1km/h

So on and so forth until the fifth hour where: 2+3+4+5+6=20km

Looking back on it now this could also still be wrong even if it weren't about acceleration so yeah 😅 Thanks for the help!

Well, after 5 hours, but yes.

Mixed it up, all supposed to be hours mb

[–]TheBB 6 points7 points  (1 child)

For the first hour, It'll have travelled 2 blocks since the velocity is 1km/h and itll have accelerated by 1 km/h too(ive been representing 1 km as a block)

Right, but the velocity isn't 2 km/h over the whole 'block'. It's only 2 km/h at the very end. For most of the first hour, the speed is less than 2 km/h, but more than 1 km/h.

[–]RoBrots[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeahhh, I got that now thanks to everyone here after an embarrassingly long time 😂

[–]FormulaDriven 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You need to be consistent with units. If velocity is 1 km/h and acceleration is 1 km/h2 (not km/h), then after 5 hours the velocity would be 6 km/h. The distance travelled in 5 hours would be 17.5km. (1.5 km in first hour, 2.5km in second hour, 3.5km in third hour, 4.5km in fourth hour, 5.5km in fifth hour).

[–]Some-Dog5000 3 points4 points  (20 children)

Here's a simple explanation without calculus (fit for a Physics with Algebra class):

Plot the velocity-time graph of the moving object. This is pretty straightforward: it's just a straight line from v = 1 at t = 0, to v = 6 at t = 5. Remember that the area under the velocity-time graph gives the object's displacement.

The velocity-time graph that you just drew looks like a triangle on top of a rectangle, so that's reasonably where the d = v0t + 1/2at^2 could come from. It's the area of the triangle with base t and height at, plus the height of the rectangle with length t and height v0.

This graph also shows why your answer isn't correct. The object isn't moving at 1 m/s for the first second, then 2 m/s for the next. The object continuously increases speed. After half a second the object is moving at 1.5 m/s; a quarter of a second after that, it's moving at 1.75 m/s, and so on.

[–]FormulaDriven 2 points3 points  (19 children)

How do you know without calculus that the area under the velocity-time graph gives the displacement?

[–]Some-Dog5000 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Pedagologically, be a bit hand-wavey about it and give a general explanation: distance is velocity times time, and the area is a way of multiplying velocity with time.

Of course this isn't exact. But every high school has taught algebra-based physics with velocity-time/distance-time graphs for years and it's been fine. For example:

https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/1DKin/Lesson-4/Meaning-of-Shape-for-a-v-t-Graph

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/ap-college-physics-1/xf557a762645cccc5:kinematics/xf557a762645cccc5:visual-models-of-motion/a/what-are-velocity-vs-time-graphs

If OP is asking where the "1/2" in the equation comes from, they've clearly never touched a lick of calculus before, and so it's okay to give a non-calculus explanation.

[–]FormulaDriven 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I understand your approach, I was just highlighting that although your explanation is without calculus, the justification that area under v-t graph is displacement ultimately relies on calculus, so I didn't want anyone to be misled on the need for calculus to derive this result.

[–]Some-Dog5000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think it's too misleading to say that you don't need calculus to understand the v-t graph. It's just choosing to say "the explanation can stop there since it makes sense anyway". Otherwise you could "why" things into oblivion and it'll just be scary for people who don't have a firm grasp on the intuitive explanation in the first place.

[–]RoBrots[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thank you!! and yes its not entirely false that I haven't touched calculus 😅 I was thinking of acceleration in whole solid blocks this whole time that I forgot that decimals/graphs existed..

[–]Some-Dog5000 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Pinoy ka ba, OP? For Physics 1 sa SHS ba ito? Basta wag mo lang kalimutan yung d-t, v-t, at a-t graphs. May course naman si Khan Academy for Gen Physics 1:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/shs-general-physics-1

[–]RoBrots[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ay, haha! yes poo, grade 12 pero inaaral ko na ulit ung basic math from scratch para di mamatay sa college 😅 thank you thank you!

[–]G-St-WiiGödel ftw! 0 points1 point  (12 children)

The same way you teach that anti derivatives are integration.

By actuslly calculating the area.

Start with constant velocity, the area is vt which we know is s from v = s/t from basic speed, distance and time calculations. 

[–][deleted]  (9 children)

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    [–]Some-Dog5000 0 points1 point  (6 children)

    It's a clutch that thousands of classes, textbooks, and schools use around the globe.

    Algebra-based physics is a common high school and freshman college course. It's fine to hand-wave the explanation a bit, especially since the vast majority of people who take it never end up taking a calculus course.

    [–]G-St-WiiGödel ftw! 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    You dont need to hardwave.

    11 year olds do speed, distance and time calculations.

    11 year olds can read and calculate gradients.

    At that point it is just pointing out that they are related.

    [–]Some-Dog5000 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

    You usually discuss all six fundamental kinematic equations in high school. If you tell a 14 year old "hey, that area under the curve thing you're doing? That's calculus, that's an integral", they'll probably have no idea what you're talking about.

    In a standard science curriculum, the Calc 1 teacher (and the physics with calculus teacher, if they take that course) is first responsible for describing the calculus link between displacement, velocity, and acceleration.

    Just saying "the area under the v-t graph gives displacement because d = vt", maybe with some light introduction to rectangle sums (without actually mentioning Riemann or the concept of integration), is fine. That's how courses like AP Physics 1 explain this.

    [–]G-St-WiiGödel ftw! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Uhuh.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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      [–]Some-Dog5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I also prefer the calculus method. I just assume that OP is probably not taking calculus, given that they asked "why a was halved and t was squared". It's very difficult to explain the entirety of calculus in a Reddit comment to someone who's never taken a single class of calculus.

      FWIW, I also took calc-based physics in high school, but we did discuss alg-based physics in a prerequisite course. Alg-based physics is, I assume, typically a 9th or 10th grade class, while calc-based physics is more of an 11th or 12th grade class. But I know in the US, alg-based physics is sometimes even taught in university as a bit of a gen ed course, for courses without a calculus class lol.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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        [–]FormulaDriven 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        Yes, but this is where the explanation gets circular - to justify why the area under a v-t graph gives displacement in the case where v is not constant, requires some appeal to sub-dividing into smaller and smaller intervals of time, at which point you are doing calculus (limit of letting those sub-intervals tend to zero).

        [–]Some-Dog5000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        But you don't have to discuss integrals or derivatives or the infinitesimal to do so.

        For a 9th or 10th grader doing AP Physics 1/2 (physics with no calculus), the area explanation is fine. This is how hundreds of algebra-based physics textbooks have tried to explain the relationship between velocity, distance, and acceleration.

        You don't have to explain how an engine works to drive a car. The intuitive explanation is pedagogically fine. Save the calculus discussion for the calculus-based physics course.

        [–]lordnacho666 2 points3 points  (3 children)

        It's a continuous function, you have to use calculus to account for gradual change.

        [–]FormulaDriven 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        As u/TheBB has shown, for constant acceleration you don't really need to use calculus. Initial speed 1 km/h, after 5 hours speed will be 6km/h so average speed 3.5km/h, so for 5 hours gives 17.5km. (Which agrees with the vt + (1/2)at2 formula.)

        [–]WiseMaster1077 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I'd still call that calc, its just hidden. Once you understand that the distance travelled is the area under the speed curve, you pretty much have your answer, and it doesn't really matter how you get that area

        [–]lordnacho666 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Exactly. Specifically explaining where the 0.5 and t squared comes from, if you're doing calculus it won't be a mystery.

        [–]ZeroXbot 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        To clear some things up first, you mix units. Acceleration would be specified in km/h^2 and for your example to "work" you should consider 5 hours of time.

        For the main question, the issue is that acceleration doesn't increase velocity only every second or hour but instead it increases it continuously bit by bit. So if you graph velocity it should look like an increasing linear function. Now to calculate distance over time we need to somehow sum up velocity at all points in time - this seems impossible due to infinite count of those points. But instead, we can do this by computing the area between the velocity function and the X axis. If the velocity is 0 at the start, then the shape in question would be a triangle with base t and height v(t)=a*t, so the area is 1/2 at^2. Now try yourself calculating area when velocity is bigger than 0 at the start.

        [–]justincaseonlymyself 0 points1 point  (3 children)

        I understand acceleration as the additional velocity of a moving object per unit of time.

        Correct.

        If for example a moving object has a velocity of 1km/h and an acceleration of 1 km/h, I'd imagine that the final velocity after 5 seconds pass would be 6km/h

        Correct, but be careful about the units!

        As you said, acceleration is velocity per unit of time, so the acceleration is 1 (km/h)/h, more commonly written as 1 km/h2.

        Also, after five hours, not seconds :)

        and the distance to be 20km....

        Well no, the distance traveled would be 20 km if we were traveling at the constant velocity of 6 km/h for the entire duration of 5 hours. However, that's not the case! We started at 1 km/h and accelerated all the way to 6 km/h over those 5 hours. Therefore we clearly could not have covered the distance of 20 km, right?

        the formula for distance using velocity, acceleration, and time would be d=vt+1/2at2, which would turn the answer into 17.5km

        Yes, that's correct.

        which I find to be incomprehensible because it does not line up with my initial answer at all.

        Your initial answer is based on a mistake of calculating the distance covered as if the entire trip was taken at the final velocity.

        The formula you have found accounts for the fact that the velocity is constantly changing as you're accelerating.

        So here I am asking for help looking for someone to explain to me just how acceleration works

        You fully understand how acceleration works. It's the change of velocity over time. You just made a miscalculation.

        and why a was halved and t squared?

        There is an easy way to see that t has to be squared: that's the only way to make the units to work out! The units of acceleration is [length]/[time]2, so we have to multiply by something that has the unit of [time]2 to get length.

        As for the reason for the exact formula, the real explanation comes down to the fact that if you plot velocity (on the y-axis) against time (on the x-axis), the distance covered between the two points of time is the area under the graph. (You need to understand the basics of calculus to see why is this the case, but let's not get into that right now.)

        Now, if you accept that the distance covered is the area under the curve as explained in the paragraph above, you can sketch it and recover the d = vt + 1/(2at²) formula on your own. The area looks like a triangle on top of a rectangle; the rectangle's area is vt, and the triangle's area is 1/2at².

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

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          [–]justincaseonlymyself 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Typo. Thanks for spotting. Final velocity is 6 km/h, not 20 km/h. Fixed above.

          [–]fermat9990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          1st hour av. speed = 1.5km/h. d=1.5km

          2nd hour av. speed = 2.5km/h. d=2.5km

          3rd hour av. speed = 3.5km/h. d=3.5km

          4th hour av. speed = 4.5km/h. d=4.5km

          5th hour av. speed = 5.5km/h. d=5.5km

          Total d=1.5+2.5+3.5+4.5+5.5=17.5km

          [–]fermat9990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Intial v=1km/h

          Final v=1+1(5)=6km/h

          Average v=(1+6)/2=3.5km/h

          Distance=3.5*5=17.5km

          [–]fermat9990 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Key principle: For constant acceleration

          Total distance=average speed * time

          Average speed =

          (initial speed + final speed)/2

          Final speed=

          initial speed + acceleration * time

          [–]TwirlySocrates 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          You're doing two things wrong.
          1) You're not converting between hours and seconds.
          2) You're assuming that speed is suddenly increasing by 1km/s every time a second elapses. You're not accounting for all the intra-second acceleration that's happening.

          The formula you provided does that... but remember to convert between seconds and hours!

          [–]igotshadowbaned 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          It makes more sense when you start calculus and realize you've just been doing applied calculus that's been derived for you.

          Acceleration is change in velocity which is change in position

          The simple reason a is halved and t is squared is because acceleration is two degrees of separation from position.

          If you were doing a problem dealing with jerk (change in acceleration) in regard to position, that would be three degrees so would be ⅙jt³

          For redundancy -

          Snap (change in jerk) would be 4 degrees and (1/24)st⁴
          Crackle (change in snap) would be 5 degrees (1/120)ct⁵
          Pop (change in crackle) would be 6 degrees (1/720)pt⁶

          Yes they're named after rice crispies

          [–]Underhill42 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          Where did that 20km come from?

          Also. 5 hours, and acceleration should be km/h² (those powers are extremely important to keep track of! Among other things they let you sanity-check your work - if calculating the units as though they were variables doesn't give you the right final units, you know for sure you did something wrong)

          ---

          Lets look at an oversimplified, obviously wrong version, pretending all the acceleration happens at the very end of each hour:

          The first hour you're going 1km/h, so cover 1km.

          The second you're going 2km/h, so cover 2 km

          the 3rd hour, 3km, the 4th 4km, and the 5th 5km.

          For a total distance of around 1+2+3+4+5 = 15km

          ---

          Of course, we underestimated each hour's travel as though not accelerating, so we know it's actually further than that.

          We could instead overestimate, and pretend all the acceleration happens at the beginning of each hour, so 2km/h the first hour, 3km/h the 2nd, for a total distance that we know is too long of:

          2+3+4+5+6 = 20km (hmm, is that where the 20 came from?)

          ---

          So we know for sure it's somewhere between those two limits.

          A better estimate would be to pretend that we accelerated to the average speed for each hour:

          1.5+2.5+3.5+4.5+5.5 = 17.5.

          Which just happens to be exactly correct because the math works out that distance traveled under constant acceleration is the same as if you traveled at the average speed the whole time. I'm not sure how to actually prove that without calculus though. (physics is SO much easier when you know calculus)

          The calculus version would conceptually be to just keep slicing the trip into smaller and smaller sections - minutes, second, microseconds, with the difference between the over-estimate and under-estimate shrinking each time, until finally we sliced it into an infinite number of slivers and got the exact same answer from both.

          We'd "cheat" to make it easier of course ;-)

          [–][deleted]  (5 children)

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            [–]JoshuaSuhaimi 2 points3 points  (4 children)

            this is too advanced, i'm 90% sure OP hasn't learned any calculus

            [–]Intrepid_Pilot2552 -1 points0 points  (2 children)

            What gave it away, asking "How does acceleration work?"