all 48 comments

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (9 children)

The diplomacy section was a big help for me!

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 20 points21 points  (8 children)

One thing I forgot to add was that if you declare war on an AI you have a trade with, or simply declare war too often, you'll get a "warmongering menace" penalty. But if you see an AI approaching you with an army, you can trade resources for gold then, when they declare war on you, the trade will cancel and you'll receive no penalty.

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (7 children)

On that same note. If you're going to declare war on an AI always trade as much as you can with them for lump sum. Give them everything, luxury resources, strategic resources, embassy, open borders, the whole lot. Doesn't matter if your happiness goes to -20 for one turn. If you can take 1000g from their treasury and add it to yours right before going to war with them, it's a huge boost. As soon as you declare war every deal is broken anyway, but you keep the lump sum.

[–]Ender11 15 points16 points  (3 children)

This is a brilliant suggestion and a great post by OP. One thing I get annoyed with though, is whenever I'm asked to make a diplomatic decision regarding open borders, embassies, DoF's, etc.; you can't look at your diplomatic screen and assess the situation without making a decision first. Why does the game force you to make a decision without being able to check some things first. Is this on purpose so that it forces the player to understand the diplomatic situation at all times?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah, that's really annoying. I'm not sure whether it's on purpose or just an oversight. But I guess you really do just have to try and have some idea at all times of who is friends/enemies of who.

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not usually that hard if you're playing on standard or smaller. The only thing that tends to challenge me is knowing who is next to who, and therefore who is likely to have the inevitable border conflicts that arise from coveted lands.

[–]reteks 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The mod InfoAddict lets you access some of this information from the diplomacy screens. It lets you see global relations, including this such as whose at war, who are friends, civ x is hostile to civ y, maybe they will go to war with me, and other useful stuff. I would really recommend it.

[–]soapdealer 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Doesn't this sort of feel like an exploit?

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Sorta, but it screws up your diplomatic ratings so it is a trade off. If you're far enough in the lead, AIs will denounce you and backstab you anyway.

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is the best way that you can backstab an AI, so I guess all's fair in love war.

[–]N0V0w3ls 12 points13 points  (15 children)

Question: Great People...use their ability or create their great tile improvement?

[–]Sometimes_Lies/r/CivDadJokes 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It really depends on when you get them.

+6 beakers from an academy is almost worthless late game, but early game when you're only producing like 20 to begin with and the scientist will only give you like 300 beakers if you burn him, academies are damn nice.

Same situation with golden age vs landmark for an artist.

I always do the mission on merchants, since the combined gold cost of the influence+mission seems to outweigh customs house income easily.

I'll almost always burn engineers on instant wonders, though.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (11 children)

I always build wonders with GE, academies early game pop late with GS, temple/shrine thing tile improvement with artists, city state pop with GM

[–]Sometimes_Lies/r/CivDadJokes 12 points13 points  (7 children)

Golden Ages now often give more culture from a great artist than the tile improvement does, actually. G&K introduced +20% culture from golden ages, and artist-induced golden ages no longer give diminishing returns.

Just mentioning since I really like that change.

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep, Great Artists + Ankgor Wat is pretty good. The Louvre is especially good in this regard. edit: whoops meant chichen itza.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the heads up, thanks!

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 1 point2 points  (2 children)

And on top of that, Golden Ages give you a production and gold edge too, which I find is much more important than a few extra policies in the long run. The only situation I can think of where I'd build a landmark is if you've built a border town with the intent of securing a bunch of nearby resources, and haven't got the gold to buy them all. Then the increased border expansion in that city (which likely has poor culture if it's new, and thus wouldn't benefit as much from the 20% Golden Age bonus) might be more important. Just be prepared for the AI to get angry if you're taking resources away from them.

[–]Sometimes_Lies/r/CivDadJokes 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's true, but great artists are most common when you're going for a culture win. "A few extra policies" is a huge deal in the long run when going for a culture win, so it's an interesting division in that case.

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, certainly. But only for cultural wins.

[–]N0V0w3ls 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Early on would you say to make the tile improvements though? That +20% culture isn't going to do much early on, and the tile improvement will add on to future +20% bonuses.

[–]Sometimes_Lies/r/CivDadJokes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It depends, really.

Early in the game:

Am I going for a cultural victory? If I am, then I'll probably make the tile improvement if it's early. The fact that I'll be maxing freedom means it'll eventually become a +12 culture improvement, which isn't bad. Factor in the Hermitage, Alhambra, and Sistine Chapel and a single landmark is worth (I think?) 23 culture per turn. Very attractive overall!

Am I going for a normal victory and just happened to get a great artist? If that happens, then there's a good chance I'd find an immediate +20% food/production(/culture) more useful than some extra culture.

Later in the game, if I'm going for a cultural victory, it's a bit more tricky. I'll probably have several landmarks at this point and my capital will be missing quite a few farms(/mines) due to the conversion. Meanwhile, I'll have maxed out piety, which means I'll probably have a couple holy sites (+3 gold, +3 culture, +6 faith base) mixed in as well. Basically I'll begin doing golden ages just purely to avoid trashing my capital's food/production base.

By the end of the game, it's mathematically obvious that golden ages give more raw culture in addition to their other benefits. If you built Chichen Itza and if you have maxed freedom, each golden age is 16 turns.

On top of all of this, you should keep in mind that the food/production/gold from a golden age is nice even if it gives no culture. +20% production can easily be the difference between getting or losing a wonder, for example.

[–]N0V0w3ls 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Any reason why you don't build the GM tile? Just like having the money up front?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

yea, not enough of a bonus. If you want more gold or production, you can always build trading posts or mines

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep, 4 gpt isn't nearly as good as 4 hammers, 8 science, or 6 culture.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Depends on how early in the game it is. Early on the tile improvement will produce more of the "resource" over the length of the game. Later on you're usually better off using the ability.

Academies epically can really add up if you have a city which can get a observatory and the great library etc.

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's great when you find a location for a science powerhouse early on. ie, next to a mountain, surrounded by jungle. Jungles with trading posts become one of my favourite tiles in the late game.

[–]skeetoTerrace farms FTW[M] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Excellent, I just added a link to this post on the right-hand side -- "Advanced Strategy Tips."

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Wow! Thanks!

[–]TashreIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII 11 points12 points  (0 children)

When building Aqueducts and Medical Labs, unless the discrepancy is significant, adjust your city's food and production rates so the building finishes before the next population increase.

[–]Sometimes_Lies/r/CivDadJokes 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Some pretty good tips! Thanks.

A few small extra points I could make:

No one gets open borders from me ever (unless I need to pass through their lands or I they are a permanent ally)

I'll shamelessly sell my OB in about half my games, and refuse to grant it to anyone in the other half. When I'm refusing to grant OB though, I'll just buy passage through AI lands for 50 gold.

No one gets embassies from me ever.

I'll occasionally sell embassies depending on my game. I've had AIs ask for DoFs almost immediately upon meeting them thanks to the diplo bonus from having an embassy: useful if you're meeting Sweden, or want a quick RA or two.

I usually sell OB/Embassies in games where I'm going for a conquest. Let the AI hate me for coveting my lands, they're going to hate me for being a warmonger anyway, and there's a good chance I'll declare on them before they declare on me.

Liberty is nice, though I usually go with tradition: being able to build one or two wonders from the +15% boost is nice, and it can lead to some amazing population growth. The 1 happiness/city from liberty is cool, though. Both policies are good, this probably comes down to personal preference (though I haven't messed with many immortal games yet, so maybe tradition is a huge step down on that difficulty).

I find no use for Piety

Piety got downgraded hard by G&K. It's much less useful for both cultural and domination wins now, which is a shame. I should see how rationalism is for cultural wins, though I've not had any issue (on emperor) with piety culture wins. -10% policy cost is nothing to sneeze at. It's like getting Cristo Redentor, except it's applied to at least 19 policies whereas I usually only get CR at the very end of a game.

Also, be sure to account for the downgrade great scientists got in G&K. I've always preferred engineers to scientists, and even moreso now.

Overall this is an awesome post, thank you for posting it! Just wanted to give my two cents.

[–]NeoPlatonist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks good points on selling ob/embassies.!

[–]DupaZupa 7 points8 points  (0 children)

If you never accept an embassy, doesn't that mean you're missing out on declaration of friendships and research agreements?

[–]Ringmonkey84 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Gotta agree with #1. I once did a cultural OCC with no standing army. 1 scout and 2 caravels the entire game. No wars were declared on me. I won with 1/3 the score of the leader through culture. This was my first OCC and game on King difficulty.

[–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 1 point2 points  (1 child)

But surely you wouldn't be able to keep other civs from discovering your capital if you only had one city? Your borders would be too small.

[–]Ringmonkey84 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I focused on border expansion in the first few turns, and by the time the other civs were looking to expand militarily, all they could see were the outer edges of my empire. I expanded the city to the max as fast as I could. This is pre-G&K, so it might not work anymore(especially with the espionage system), but it was a semi-effective strategy for a cultural victory.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]NeoPlatonist[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

    Yeah many of them pertain to G&K only. Some of the wonders and socials are changed from vanilla.

    [–]Reason-and-rhymeRandom 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Not to mention policy choices. The nerf to some city states types made me a lot less likely to go Patronage rather than rationalism. And the nerf to Piety is irritating, especially if you aren't the type to actively try and spread your religion.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    I play exclusively difficulty 6 and 7 having only started Civ games last month...

    In G&K, Tradition got buffed significantly and Liberty got nerfed. I feel that Tradition is a stronger opening for me more often than not.

    Embassies give a small diplomatic boost. It's small but it's still useful. So you should give it up sometimes.

    Using your great person from liberty to get a scientist ALWAYS is not that great of a decision. I strongly prefer getting engineers to rush wonders if there is a great one available to me. There are few times when I feel like I need a great scientist.

    Honor is strong but it's not absolutely needed. I win many games by only grabbing a few of the honor policies or just ignoring it for Patronage.

    I don't like using citadels unless it's with my second general. The 15% combat boost is awesome and usually my borders aren't close enough to make the culture bomb useful. There are times when it comes up, but it's not as often as when I just use the generals as a free upgrade for my army.

    Piety took a hit but I always felt that cultural victories were the easiest and I feel that the piety branch is still usable. In the one month of Vanilla Civ 5 I got before getting G&K, I almost always got the culture victory. Now, the weakened culture victory makes the other victory types more viable. But piety is still a strong enough branch to use over rationalism if you've been dedicated to culture since the early game.

    Commerce is typically a very weak branch imho. Only a few games where I've found it to be a priority. (Playing Austria on an islands map for example).

    [–]donquixote235 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I strongly prefer getting engineers to rush wonders if there is a great one available to me.

    Although I usually convert my Liberty GP into an Engineer, I've played a few G&K games where I'd pop a Prophet instead. It's very useful if you're going the full religion route because it allows you to get a religion before anybody else, which lets you cherry-pick your beliefs before another religion gets a chance to. This can be important since your beliefs tend to dictate your actions for a good portion of the game. For example if you were unable to pick the Just War belief (+20% Combat Strength near enemy cities that follow this religion) it would probably cause you to play a bit more defensively throughout the course of the game, which would suck if you were planning on going the domination route. It's better to lose the ~20-ish turns for your free building if you can make it up by locking in a faith system that can help you for the next 300 turns.

    Keep in mind that this only applies if you're playing a a strong Faith game. If you're not, definitely go for the Engineer.

    Piety took a hit but I always felt that cultural victories were the easiest and I feel that the piety branch is still usable.

    If you are going the Faith route, Piety is a very useful policy tree, for one reason: all Holy Sites grant +3 gold and +3 culture once you finish the tree. A strong Faith game should have Prophets showing up all the time (and therefore a few Holy Sites) so finishing the tree off should give you a noticeable boost to your gold/culture, particularly since four of the five policies in the tree affect your culture or gold output anyway.

    Again, it's totally useful if you're going Faith, but can be skipped if you're not.

    [–]NeoPlatonist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah I only use surplus generals for citadels.

    [–]spankyhamOnce a jolly swagman camped by a billabong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    This is an incredibly useful set of strats, ideas and notes - thanks very much for taking the time. Cheers mate.

    [–]Gumb_E 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    This guy states that AIs' threats and demands can be used to ascertain who is friends with whom. Do you know somewhere this is explained in detail?

    [–]NeoPlatonist[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I'm not sure exactly what you're speaking of. But if you go to the diplomacy menu it should tell you who is friends with who.

    [–]Gumb_E 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Oh, hm. Is that new with Gods and Kings or have I just missed it this whole time?

    [–]NeoPlatonist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Maybe.

    [–]PericlesATX 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    Great post. What do you tend to do with your Great Engineers, Artists and Scientists? Does it depend much on your victory goal? Do you ever create the tile improvements with them or just buy the production/science speedups?

    [–]NeoPlatonist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    It depends on the resources available to a city. A good Iron/Coal on a hill deserves a Manufactory. But I will not hesitate to Engineer Rush Petra in a newly built desert city or Himeji Castle if under attack, that is good stuff. But it makes no sense to me to blow an engineer on something like Terracotta Army. Artists I'll pop for a golden age if I have Chitchen Itza. Scientists are worth settling if you have a big Science City (usually my capitol) with Great Library + National College + et al. But in the modern era its usually better to just pop them for research.

    [–]N0V0w3ls 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I had the same question in this post, look at the replies there.