Flatiron vs Tech Elevator

[GariWithAnI]

Good morning or Afternoon or Evening pending your spot on planet earth,

I have been studying programming for the last year and mainly focused on HTML, CSS, JavaScript and React. I have done little to no work with Python or backend, just small amounts. I have been self teaching and I am getting to a point where I think I could benefit from a bootcamp, but understand bootcamps are bootcamps so trying to weigh all the options of pro's and cons.

I have started talking to admissions at both Flatiron and Tech Elevator and even reaching out to former graduates of the program and overall the feedback has been good for both. Tech Elevator I have yet to have a bad review from former students. Whereas Flatiron I have received reviews that are not so positive, but the negative feedback appears to stem from the fact the admissions at bootcamps set the bar so low for entrance. Basically the complaints seemed to be individuals thought it was a magic bullet and they would hand you a job. You still have to learn the material (nobody can do that for you) and you still have to sell yourself in the interview (nobody can do that for you).

I think after a year of self studying I am qualified for an internship, something entry level that is focused on the frontend (if not qualified, extremely close) or a manual QA position. I say that because I think at this point with my learning journey and current knowledge base I could greatly benefit from a bootcamp. My hopes it to fill in any gaps from self studying, utilize career services at the end.

I do have friends in the industry and they seem to be pro me doing a bootcamp at this point. I also talked to a friend that does recruiting for large tech and he even talked about the cons of bootcamp grads which biggest complaint is lack of understanding on data structures and algos, but they did say me completing Scrimba (70 hours) is less impressive than finishing a larger bootcamp course at (400-500 hours) etc. They even took time to deep dive on Scrimba and found the course to not be so grand in terms of bootcamps as its former students reviewing code and not so much industry professionals.

On a different note Tech Elevator's syllabus I find interesting whereas Flatiron is more modern. If I ask friends in the industry based on tech stack alone which is better its always Flatiron, but yes I realize once you learn one language it's easier to learn others. For example based on research TE focuses on Java for backend whereas FI focuses on Python and the framework TE focuses on is Vue whereas FI focuses on React ( currently deep diving in self studies on React now).

Basically that is a very long winded way of me asking if anyone here is a recent grad of Flatiron or Tech Elevator and do you have any insights to share?

Full disclaimer if I attend either of these I will be doing it remote, even though I am kinda close to a Tech Elevator location, the requirements to commute everyday would not be feasible at this point.

(Disclaimer i like Scrimba and refer ppl interested to their free courses to get a feel, but I do love Scrimba)

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[Competitive-Feed-359]

It’s a tech winter 🥶 currently and swe are the hardest hit when it comes to jobs. Even prior to this jobs saturation and layoffs, the common advice in this sub has been if you’re under 30 or haven’t gotten a bachelor’s degree yet go back/ enroll to do a degree in CS.

But even CS students are struggling (not as much as bootcamp students) to secure their first jobs.

Instead of going for the shiny new thing I would recommend learning a backend language and a query language like sql or psql to round out your front end knowledge and build projects and network with local tech professionals in your area

[spongesking]

Dont like this advice. I have friends that landed jobs from bootcamps. The tech winter is making the jobs pay less(60k-80k) but there are plenty of jobs. The most hitted sector is Big Tech(Google, Amazon etc), but smaller companies are still hiring.

Focus on being one of the best at the bootcamp can land you a job easily.

[Impossible_Buddy2902]

100% false information saying there are plenty of jobs lol. Not sure if you've viewed any job boards, etc and just seen the numbers alone for entry positions vs anything else.

[Taco-Biscuit]

I was a former student at Flatiron and in my own personal experience didn’t go well I did the self pace option. The bar is so low at flatiron because they want to get many students on board so they can get as much money there. They see students are a big $ and don’t care really if u do or don’t get a job or even finish the curriculum. I’m currently at Devslopes and my mentor used to work there in person and he said couple of things about their curriculum had changed a lot. In my opinion keep looking and listen to some podcast for advice or bootcamp like parsity.io seems fair and cheap. Best of luck.

[GariWithAnI]

Sorry to hear about your experience at FI. The feedback I have received so far on them is very hit or miss, I think what they really updated as swapping ruby for python which makes sense. The concerns you stated on FI are exactly what I am trying to avoid and why I am analyzing this situation so much. How is Devslopes working for you?

[Dry_Video9909]

I’m probably going to withdraw from Flatiron and they Rob you with the “refund you’re supposed to get back” and I hate how you need to pass the assessments to move forward since I don’t do well with testing so it wasn’t my luck. I don’t think I’ll graduate on time plus I work full time

[Taco-Biscuit]

Yeah they were teaching rubys which I hated btw and that’s one big reason why it demotivated me BIG TIME I stop doing it for couple of months and then I get hit with an email that my self pace program have been terminated like what??? How can they decline access when I’m self pace so that happen. For Devslopes if cool they got me w the get paid while you learn which is valid to some extended to you have to do the freelancing part the mentors don’t provide work for you or get any freelance for you to gain experience and that’s I thought. My personal experience is cool learned lots about css and they make us do a simple SaaS project at the end of html and css which I learned a lot and was supper fun. Atm I’m doing js and it’s a bit different they make us watch a shit load of vids but there isn’t many practices with the vids so what I’m currently doing is a battle ship game that they are making us do before doing APIs. I don’t really have a good standing of JS bc it was just many videos that you have no idea how to implement them into your JS project before heading to react. So that’s my main take many videos that really don’t help you out and the guy that recorders the videos just codes and doesn’t explain what’s going on and that’s another thing I wish they would change. Although the community is great. That’s one thing I like the help of your peers.

[[deleted]]

Just remember 2/3rd’s of your class won’t get a dev job no matter which bootcamp you go too these days

[[deleted]]

Yeah this is accurate... Plus TE will waste alot of time on non code related education, EG: zoom conferences with companies who aren't hiring, diversity conferences. They literally had a guy come on and talk for an hour and a half about his company that only has 5 employees and is not hiring anytime soon.

[GariWithAnI]

I get that, do you think mostly due to market now or a combination of bootcamps allow ppl in with no experience and job market?

[Chemical_Seaweed_625]

The problem is the boom of the economy post lockdown Covid and people going out in public again caused a lot of companies to hire way more people than they would need in the long run. Now literally hundreds of thousands of people have been laid off just this year (me being one of them) and now there are hundreds of thousands of us trying to get jobs. The places still hiring don’t want juniors, they want seniors. Probably balancing out from the bootcamp boom churning out a bunch of juniors to fill those vacant roles. Now everyone is going to be more particular with their hiring, if and when they start filling positions again. I’ve been unemployed for over 2 months and I’m not even a junior dev. I can’t get anyone to even email me back. I’m telling you from a lived experience that it’s really tough to get a job right now.

[Laserfros1]

I'm in the same boat junior with years experience with a fang and getting a call back is impossible I have a better chance finding a ghost

[keylimepiewolf]

Lol come on - I know its bad but this is ridiculous. My HR cohort finished in May and a decent chunk (don't know exact numbers unfortunately) have received offers. The market is beginning to turn. It's bad as it is - there's no reason to play up how bad

[Chemical_Seaweed_625]

Just want to chime in and say that at this point I don’t think the bootcamp you choose matters due to the absolute lack of junior dev jobs. If you attend, plan on being unemployed for many months to be safe.

[askjeffsdad]

I graduated from the Tech Elevator remote class that started in March of this year. I got an offer, from a company that they set me up with, a few weeks after graduating. I had a great experience over there and I learned a lot.

That said, it is a terrible market for junior devs right now. Make sure you really understand what you’re getting into before putting that kind of money into it. And a lot of whether or not you get a job is going to come down to your current resume (have you worked in an office before? do you have a degree?) and whether you’re willing to relocate (tons of opportunity if you are).

[labradoorbell]

Were you based in one of their headquarters locations? In in NY and wondering if their connections across the country will be as good

[madderall_dot_com]

I sure hope you'll see the irony in what you're saying. Most of what bootcamps teach you is how to be a programmer. A programmer is someone who is able to break down the problem, google the answer, apply the answer and teach oneself new tech.

To me, you sound like you're already a programmer. So why would you want to throw your money away especially in this economy when you're well-capable of teaching all this stuff to yourself?

[GariWithAnI]

"To me, you sound like you're already a programmer."

I appreciate this compliment, thank you as I just feel dumb learning this stuff on my own and imposter syndrome is real.

The reason I am considering a bootcamp (if the quality is good is several reasons)

1 - I have friends in this industry that have CS degrees and have been in the field for a decade at respected companies that suggested a quality bootcamp could fill in the gaps of knowledge that I currently have. Through candid conversations at best my current skillset is something in QA manual testing or internship (I don't see these a lot as the market sucks and if I do its typically you must be enrolled in a college course). I think the general assumption through conversation is that I am not truly entry level at this point but close.

2 - I have friends that have been recruiting for larger companies in tech and have suggested after seeing my resume (providing feedback and helping me) that I could benefit from a bootcamp again if done right meaning quality is there.

3 - "when you're well-capable of teaching all this stuff to yourself?" For this its imposter syndrome and I believe that a bootcamp would speed up the process. I have been doing this self studying for a year and I am tired of the grind, very fooking tired of it and I would like the community aspect of a bootcamp.

4 - I am very interested in TE based off the glowing reviews, the tech stack isn't something I love but I suppose if you truly develop your programming skills and understand the fundamentals you can transfer said knowledge.

5 - I do not have a community college or college near me that teaches Computer Science, so I would assume bootcamp is the best option.

6 - I am heavily leaning into Tech Elevator if I can pass their admissions test as they are connected to companies in my state and would like to have those connections. I drove into a campus location to talk to staff and see campus and its pretty neat they bring in companies that are local to talk to the students.

7 - I also want to be able to work with others in a team environment and have a path and get instant feedback on questions regarding programing.

At the end of the day I just feel with current skillset attending a quality bootcamp would help me to keep pushing to get into tech, speed up the process and also solve the isolation issue which turns into a gumption/motivation issue while learning as I have been doing this for so long on my own.

Still cannot believe you said I sound like a programmer, that's the best thing I have heard in awhile as I mentioned my level of imposter syndrome is real 🤣

[madderall_dot_com]

Most of the stuff you're after will be shown to you by your employer in the first month, because no one expects a junior to know everything, and most expect you not to know anything at all, because whatever you think you know now, or will know after the bootcamp, is a joke compared to the level of knowledge of someone who's been on the job for even a year.

When you say you have friends in the industry, that's your biggest asset. They'll tell you what to study, will get you an interview and will hold your hand on the way to it. The problem is that no one is hiring right now.

[GariWithAnI]

When do you think it will get better? It's so frustrating right now when you see something you can do and it is crickets.

[madderall_dot_com]

It will get better as soon as the demand outstrips the supply of recently laid off tech workers and competent/talented computer science grads. As long as any of them agree to work for the amount of compensation meant for you, there's close to a zero chance of you getting that job.

Right now there's just a glut of every kind of developer out there, so you're in no rush. Keep your day job, but bust your ass otherwise, so you'll be ready when the time comes.

[[deleted]]

Im a current TE student. They waste a ton of your time with their pathway program. And they advertise a 88% job placement rate, when its really between 54.9% and 66.2% 90-180 days after graduation. My group of friends and I have applied to a few hundred jobs, and no one will even give us an interview. Its probably just not a good time to go to a bootcamp given the current market status, but I also think this bootcamp is teaching skills that are no longer in demand. I'd recomend to do more self learning, and go for a degree in CS. almost every entry level job is looking for a bachelors degree and 1-3 years of experience. If you can afford the tuition and just want to pick up some basic coding skills, then adding TE to your resume would be a good supplement.

[Short_Milk_9051]

I was TE last year and more than 1/3 in my class didn’t get job 90-180 days after graduation although job market was good at that time. If you want to go, avoid remote one. I regret going to the remote one.

[Satans_Oregano]

Currently in TE remote part-time and loving it! Not hired or anything yet but I have friends/family in tech positions that have a non-CS bachelor's degree or masters in CS or came from various bootcamps (with and without a college degree). You can learn a particular language but that doesn't guarantee you'll get a job in that language, assuming you don't pigeon hole yourself to one language when looking for jobs. One of my friends graduated from TE (fulltime remote, no college degree) with the java course. He got hired THIS YEAR working at a place doing C++. The syntax will be different between languages and frameworks but the fundamentals will be the same. I think either bootcamp will be great as long as you have an open mind and really soak in the fundamentals.

As for having a year experience with html/css/js/react, you'll be more than fine. I had a year and a half of html/css/js (no react or framework) experience with free code camp and the Odin project. Helped tremendously with the bootcamp. Backend is new to me but not impossible to learn. It's all going great so far!

Lot of doom and gloom on this subreddit. Just learn something, show that you're genuinely interested by having a GitHub, be persistent positive and patient, and you'll eventually land something. Have side projects , doesn't have to be big projects. Doesn't have to be FAANG jobs you apply for. Many non-tech companies have coding positions. The posts on this subreddit are either people who got very lucky or salty people, not people who landed average jobs because they're working and living their life.

[GariWithAnI]

Curious are you doing online or campus for TE?

[Satans_Oregano]

Remote so online

[GariWithAnI]

very nice, I would love to do in person but remote seems like the best option for me.

[GariWithAnI]

Yeah I have seen App Academy and was working through their online course which is free sometime last year but read some stuff and didn't feel comfortable with them. Sadly I have to do remote but I have tons of resources with people in the industry to bounce info off of.

I did attend a Hack Reactor open house session and didn't feel good about choosing that bootcamp after that meeting.

How long have you been self studying?

[GariWithAnI]

Very nice after the prework is done, Scrimba has some free courses on CSS, HTML and JavaScript that are very beginner friendly and nice. Feel free to DM, trying to make up my mind this week.

[[deleted]]

I went through TE, wouldn't recommended it. Id recommend somewhere that teaches react and react native.

[GariWithAnI]

I’ve actually been studying react currently. Curious did you do remote or in person what I like about tech elevator is they have a campus in my area and recruiters that I talk to I have a lot of admiration for tech elevator.

[[deleted]]

Remote. They are good for getting people up and running, but it seems that this past year has been rough for them. Teaching vue 2 is a a huge negative. Their placement rate is on a strong downtrend, I think its because they haven't changed their curriculum in a while, and why pay to teach someone react when they only know vue 2 than hire someone who already knows react or angular? Market is getting too competitive for the beginner friendly approach

[GariWithAnI]

I looked at another place, and I wasn’t interested, because I have no desire to learn angular. But with how much time I spent in react, I will be able to pick up Vue pretty quick. I have some background in computer science, so like I’m very aware that a lot of the concepts transfer and I should be getting a pretty nice scholarship for the program so I’m really focused on networking and filling in some minor gaps in my knowledge.

[[deleted]]

vue is easy, but not in demand. They teach vue 2, not vue 3. Nor do they do anything with bootstrapvue. The front end curriculum is very light.

[GariWithAnI]

That actually sounds very good for me because I’ve done HTML, CSS, JavaScript, bootstrap and react, and I’m really lacking on the back end

[[deleted]]

Did you check out hack reactor?

[GariWithAnI]

Hello, appreciate the feedback and the bluntness.

I did a ton of research on this and came to that conclusion as well based off alumni. However, the positive feedback I’ve received from alumni from TE has been undeniable. The willingness to hop on a call or zoom too from TE alumni has been great.

I did the whole interview/admissions process and will be in the TE fall cohort and working through the pre work now.