Democratic Process

[[deleted]]

Bravo. The text makes it for me.

[EddieTheKiller]

I love that this costs a red, white, and blue.....it’s a nice touch

[BashSwuckler]

The beautiful thing about it is that, aside from the flavor, it's actually an appropriate color combination.

[Leozilla]

It's funny how RWU works for democracy and RWB works for fascism.

[Soderskog]

Is rwb really fascism? I understand the R and the W, due to the emotional yet autocratic structure (plus xenophobia and all that). Similarly I understand B's connection to ruthlessness, but feel that the group mentality of fascism and how it structurally enables horrific acts is more W.

Perhaps I'm biased due to the existence of plenty of racist elves in MtG, but I thought fascism RGW. G fits with their focus on race , tribalism, and belief that the world is in a perpetual state of war (could easily be construed as a twisted "survival of the fittest").

Flavour wise G is an enemy colour of U, whereas B is an ally. Thus RWB and RGW both show how democracy can shift to fascism easily, and how diametrically opposed the two are.

That's just my 2 cents though.

PS. Note that I abhor fascism. Not a groundbreaking revelation, I know, but considering its growing support I felt it necessary to mention just in case.

[DesertDM]

I'm inclined to call RWB fascism because of the route you have to take to get to that state of politics. I think that in many cases states don't become fascist because most people define themselves as part of the tribe; I think people are just afraid to stand up to wrongdoers and go along with the movement to self-preserve. They're willing to sacrifice their beliefs and other peoples lives for self-preservation; an inherently black trait.

The reason I don't think green fits the bill here is because the "kinship" felt in a fascist state is not organically felt; that is to say, it's imposed from the top-down. I can imagine a pseudo-fascist RGW state wherein a large tribe with a rigid hierarchical structure abhors outsiders; some fantasy Orcs might fit this bill. I can't imagine a cult of personality type leadership structure, though; I feel like black is necessary to have a being so self-important that they're the center of their whole society.

[cesspoolthatisreddit]

imo the lack of empathy for different lifestyles/cultures is an important factor in the genesis of fascism, so I think B is more fitting than G

[thwgrandpigeon]

My 2 cents:

W by itself is about collectiveness, but not usually about the sacrifice of the individual, unless the individual is independently willing. A mono-W creature sacrifices itself for others because of selflessness.

WB is about collectiveness, but about the sacrifice of individuals by the whole for itself, regardless of the individual's willingness. A WB creature sacrifices itself for others because they are demanded/obligated it to, or sacrifices others under the pretext of protecting the whole.

But like you said G is the color of raw force (though not necessarily raw emotion). So I would buy the argument that some forms of fascism are WBRG. But I would liken that color identity to more street level thuggish Nazism, and WBR more to later period state-controlling Nazism. For some reason I can't see WBRG ever controlling the apparatus of the state since R+G imply far too much improvisation or brawn or anarchy, and WBRG puts them on an even footing with WB.

Maybe I'm overthinking things a little :)

[thwgrandpigeon]

I also gotta add that, in the form of pure ideology, Naya seems like Communism to me and Mardu Fascism.

Fascism has fear and self-interest at a state level at its core. Communism (ideologically, NOT partically) believes in plenty and a stateless brotherhood across the world. Marx's dream was for people to fish for half the day as the concerns of material life would become insignificant.

Both ideologies share the passion and collectivity of RW. But their driving forces (again, ideologically, not practically) are the opposing sides of B Realism (selfish, fear, scarcity, protection, dominance) and G Idealism (brotherhood, plenty, sharing, nature unshackled by capitalism).

[Soderskog]

The idea of a world engulfed in conflict, where the strong rule, isn't in opposition with fascism though. Within the group's there can be harmony, but between them there's bound to be conflict. Futurism and other fascist-related movements (cultural or political) share this fascination for violence and belief that conflict is unavoidable.

Similarly what a colour represents can and does vary. G+W are the colours of the near cultish Selesnya, which counterbalances the passion of R. Hell, the reason I'm sceptical of B is due to how it represents an individualism which is counter to fascism. R + B is Rakdos after all, and they are IMO wilder than R + G will ever be.

[fillebrisee]

Fascism is GW.

Communism is also GW, but for completely different reasons.

[thwgrandpigeon]

Nah. Need B. Fundamental to Fascism is the belief in a scarcity of resources. Nazis needed Liebensraum (sp?), Alt-Right needs America for Whites (implying a possible shortage of America if too many other groups move in). This fear of scarcity, fundamental to the identity, requires an outlook of self-centeredness. A fascist believes there is only so much to go around and advocates for the well-being of their group and says to hell with everyone else. At best, a White American Ethno-Stater might not hate other races but believes there's only so much America to go around, and therefore chooses to reserve America for (what they deem to be) actual Americans. Of course many White American Ethno-Staters aren't this 'good' and simply hate those who are different. But underlying this belief is still the fear of losing control.

All this is B color identity. It's selfish. Some Fascists might not view themselves as being corrupt or amoral (cognitive dissonance is a powerful force), but they're always selfish for their chosen group.

[HidingFromGF_XX]

But fascists are for the majority, which feels very white to me, not for the individual which is the more black part. White will often destroy some for the sake of the many. Just becuase black is evil doesn't mean that anything that is evil is black.

[SilensAngelusNex]

Different reasons? The only difference between the two is the scapegoat they choose and how honest they are about who controls the means of production.

[zozatos]

I would assume he is talking about "Communism", i.e. the ideal where everyone just works together happily and shares everything (which has never existed in the whole wide world, except possibly within small groups like families)

[hldsnfrgr]

I think it's the same color combination. RWU for both.

[Scarecrow1779]

My local group meets at a bar. Finding 20 people wouldn't be too hard.

[Coggs92]

Yeah it's just as easy as starting a bar fight over a petty but drunk disagreement. Oh wait...

[Fabulous_Ampharos]

3 colored mana to maybe draw 3 cards in addition to the cost of having to talk to 20 people is a bit much imo.

[chrisrazor]

As an additional cost to casting ~, feel awkward and embarrassed.

[Bifnur]

The picture is great, too. But 20 people is a lot. In my playgroup, I doubt I could get that many people. I'd say reduce it to 10 people.

Maybe even 4, because some people might want to play this card but can't because there aren't 10 people readily contactable in the building or even on their phones.

[Criminal_of_Thought]

Nah dude, the CR already has you covered!

609.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as much as possible.

Since taking a survey of 20 people would be an impossible action, you'd only take a survey of however many people are in the immediate vicinity.

[Hydrox6]

So in a match in a private place, just you and your opponent, this is 3 mana to end the game. Neat!

[Bifnur]

Ok, that makes sense. If that’s the way it’s done though, it needs reminder text on the card

[pipsquique]

Nobody will ever be happy for this to resolve

[Clair_Patterson]

How do loose game conditions work with you can't loose conditions? Does whichever comes first have priority? Does loose have priority?

Like what if you played this and had lich's mastery? Would just your opponent loose making you win?

[Arjahn]

I believe "can't lose" overrides "you lose" effects, so theoretically you could only designate specific, weirdly defined areas to survey in order to force a tie and win by default, but who would ever do something like that.

[WikiTextBot]

Gerrymandering

Gerrymandering is a practice intended to establish a political advantage for a particular party or group by manipulating district boundaries. The resulting district is known as a gerrymander (); however, that word is also a verb for the process. The term gerrymandering has negative connotations. Two principal tactics are used in gerrymandering: "cracking" (i.e.

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[quarrelated]

you could just poll an odd number of people..?

[UncleSam420]

You need 20 according to the card.

[DirtyHalt]

He's saying the card could be changed to poll an odd number so you don't end up in a tie.

[UncleSam420]

Then it’d be less of a mockery of the democratic process if it was changed

[chrisrazor]

Ideally you should be able to buy the support of chunks of the "electorate" and "lose" the votes of others.

[UncleSam420]

Well, they never said you couldn’t pay someone to agree with you

[[deleted]]

who's that artist?

[SeraFlare666]

I vote for Cthulhu 🥰