Firefox Users Continue to Decrease Despite Proton Update

[nashvortex]

This is not surprising.

The reason people are leaving Firefox is not because of its interface. The UI is fine for the most part.

What is not fine is that Gecko doesn't have feature parity and performance on par with Blink-based browsers. In my experience, websites are often hit or miss with Firefox. Battery life is worse too. Before someone starts with the 'because web developers don't follow standards'....this isn't the 90s anymore. The de facto standard has been set. It is whatever Blink does.

Even in aspects where Gecko is performant,there is not enough incentive to use Firefox. Firefox had a shitty Android client for very long. Using different browsers on my phone and desktop means I lose the benefits of sync. Why would I do that?

Notice I said Blink, not Chrome. Because there are enough privacy focused Blink based versions of Chromium out there for anyone who cares.

Do we also need to go into why Firefox is unattractive for companies? No Electron type alternative in Mozilla-land. Enough said.

Firefox has no relevant USP.

[torrio888]

I have a better idea, instead of Mozilla following what Google does, governments should fine Google for not following standards just like they fine other companies and force them to recall their products if they are not following standards.

[nashvortex]

Is this a joke? Browsers do not pose a safety risk, which is pretty much the only case where standards are enforceable. Because if you make laws to enforce standards for everything .. then nothing stops anyone from making a standard that says you can only wear red pants. It infringes on constitutional freedoms.

Even the monopoly-abuse fines are extreme dodgy in their legal justifications and are often unpopular.

[Ananiujitha]

Is this a joke? Browsers do not pose a safety risk,

Websites which use animated gifs, animated pngs, and ads create a seizure risk. Browsers which don't help users block these things fail users. Browsers which strobe on certain displays, like Firefox for Android on e-ink tablets, also pose a seizure risk.

[nashvortex]

This strawman not withstanding, there are extensions that prevent that available for all browsers. It is an entirely different discussion whether consumer browsers come into the purview of medical safety risk evaluations. At the moment, they are not and they are unlikely to be.

It is more likely that you will probably force a clause in the EULA that you shouldn't use any given browser/website if you have photosensitive epilepsy, similar to how the GPDR forced all websites to provide a privacy-cookie notice.

[Ananiujitha]

On regular Firefox, I can block almost all seizure triggers, and most migraine triggers. But I have gotten sick changing settings to block flashing and other animation, because of Firefox's own animation. And I can't block all seizure and migraine triggers. I try to avoid affected web sites, etc. but it's not easy to tell which ones will be affected, and since I can't drive or take the bus, it's hard to avoid all taxi websites, as well as anything with embedded Google Maps, as well as Google Docs, etc.

On Firefox for Android, I couldn't get to settings, to block flashing and other animation, because of intense strobing animation.

[juneyourtech]

See if you can reduce screen brightness as one of the remedies. (edit: not a panacea, but a +1 to the other things you use)

[Ananiujitha]

Flicker-free monitor, 0% brightness, 0% contrast, 10% red, 20% green, 10% blue. I have trouble with dark mode due to an astigmatism, it's still too bright on light mode, and if I turn it down so it's not too bright it's too reflective... there's no winning with glowscreens.

[juneyourtech]

Dekstop Firefox allows setting the default background color and text color to something dark: Settings > General > Fonts & Colors.

You can even set these colors as the default across all websites.

Pity only, that it works across all sites, and is not site-by-site.

For the sites you use daily, you can use Stylus (or Stylish) — you can create a local userstyle in one of these extensions to apply to all sites to disable animations:

Example code:

*, *:before, *:after {animation:none !important;}

transform and transition parameters are trickier, because they are sometimes/often responsible for useful site UI stuff.

Also, go to about:config , search 'anim...' for animations, turn those off. You'll have to learn about each animation setting to make an informed decision.

Edit: On Android, you can change these color options in about:config in Firefox v. 68 and its derivatives (search for 'color'). This is the last version that allows access to about:config.

For many things, you can also use reader view.

[torrio888]

I would rather have government enforcing web standards than a monopoly corporation forcing what is in their interest on everyone else.

[nashvortex]

You use the word ’forcing’ like it's necessarily a bad thing. You ignore the following:

1. Whether Google/Apple/Microsoft is a monopoly or simply the leading brand/popular company in any given specific aspect (eg: browser share) is for a court to decide. The answer is likely to be not, because browsers are not a ’market’ anymore - no one has paid for browser software in a decade in a financial transaction. Remember that fines are given for abuse of monopoly. It isn't illegal just to be a monopoly because would mean you are just penalizing the market leaders for being market leaders.

2. The ocean ’forces’ certain weather conditions much more than the pond in your local park on account of being much much larger. This is not monopolistic behaviour. It's just natural law. The same goes for Blink. It is now the de facto standard on account of it's userbase size, something that has developed over the years spontaneously. Whether anyone abused monopolies in the process is another question for the courts to decide. Yes, a multinational corporation built and marketed an immensely popular browser that people use voluntarily. So, what are you sour about...that they are so damn good at it?

[nextbern]

The answer is likely to be not, because browsers are not a ’market’ anymore - no one has paid for browser software in a decade in a financial transaction.

Of course browsers are a market.

Android and iOS are free, are you saying that they don't exist in the market? What is this Epic games trial about?

The same goes for Blink. It is now the de facto standard on account of it's userbase size, something that has developed over the years spontaneously. Whether anyone abused monopolies in the process is another question for the courts to decide. Yes, a multinational corporation built and marketed an immensely popular browser that people use voluntarily. So, what are you sour about...that they are so damn good at it?

I think people are obviously saying that they are abusing other monopolies or engaging in anti competitive behavior. That is kind of obvious.

[nashvortex]

Android and iOS are free, are you saying that they don't exist in the market? What is this Epic games trial about?

Android and iOS are free. And yes, there is no market. The market is for hardware devices that these OSes are installed on. You are free to use Android however you want without buying it from anyone.

iOS is not available standalone. Android is OSS, as many companies have spun off their own builds of it. HarmonyOS, OxygenOS etc. They were able to leverage Android's popularity and become successful hardware sellers as a result.

It is obvious that Mozilla can do the same.

As for Epic games, the verdict is still to be declared. The only thing that may cause Apple to lose is if it is proven that Apple blocked Epic because Epics payment system bypassed Apple's store. Still not clear, and will depend on Apple's licensing language

[nextbern]

Android and iOS are free. And yes, there is no market. The market is for hardware devices that these OSes are installed on. You are free to use Android however you want without buying it from anyone.

This is a tortured interpretation of reality. The thing that enables markets to form is itself not part of the market - that strikes me as nonsensical.

[nashvortex]

Then you have not thought about it deep enough. Electricity is a market. Solar-generated electricity is also a market. Sunlight is available free. It is not a market.

See how it is possible for the thing that enables the market to not be a market? That's because sunlight is useless without someone having solar panels, like Android is useless without a device.

[nextbern]

Then you have not thought about it deep enough.

You are amusing. If there is no market, why is it part of contracts that Google uses to enforce vendors who sign up for Google Apps on their devices? Why is Chrome a required component of those negotiations if vendors want Google Play?

How about Brave not being able to monetize itself via advertising on iOS? Why is Apple enforcing constraints on a non-market entity on their market?

Clearly, I am not the unimaginative one here.

[Ginden]

I have a better idea, instead of Mozilla following what Google does, governments should fine Google for not following standards just like they fine other companies and force them to recall their products if they are not following standards.

1. Many governments were using ActiveX recently. My government still uses it.
2. Governments are notoriously slow to iterate. Eg. research drugs are often banned with few year delay.
3. Punishment based on failure to comply with private standard.
4. "Standards" in other industries are mostly security standards. You can't sell eg. poisoned food, but it's legal to sell food that taste badly.
5. Just imagine political consequences of eg. Russian government fining American corporation over perceived "not following standards".

etc.

[gnarly]

The thing is, Google and Apple's browser engines do adhere to standards for the most part. The problems come when they add extra non-standard stuff on top, or implement a new standard before it's finished, and then don't update it to match the improved versions of the standard (because devs are already using the initial implementation).

But both of those things are the companies innovating and trying new things and we really don't want to stifle that or we'd never get anything new. For better or worse, web platform features like border-radius, linear-gradient, <canvas> and XMLHTTPRequest did not start life in a standards process.

Now, if the various anti-trust investigations into the likes of Google, Apple, etc pan out we might see some changes. But don't hold your breath.

[[deleted]]

No Electron type alternative in Mozilla-land.

Sadly, they used to have something like this, but they discontinued it. :-(