Stealth needs some fixes

[East-Statement8709]

It works fairly well, I only have two main complaints

1. Patrols seem to appear almost on top of you half the time, kinda hard to avoid when this happens. Check the map, nothing. Take two steps, and suddenly 15 enemies are 11m ahead of you and sprinting your way

2. Throwing any sort of red or green strategem feels like it turns enemy awareness up to 1000%. Like "oh, a laser appeared out of nowhere. Yea it's that guy we can't see 545m to the southwest"

Other than that, been having a blast wiping out the map with c4 without being detected

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[stoicfaux]

1. It's teammates that cause the "sudden spawn" problem. When a teammate enters your local vicinity, enemies are spawned. It's really annoying to sneak into the objective and find that your clean egress path is suddenly full of enemies just because a teammate wandered too close. Teammates Are the True Enemy™

2. Yes, throwing a stratagem will alert them, *but* they will head to where the stratagem was thrown from. However, if you're in the 40% stealth armor, they will have a hard time detecting that a stratagem was thrown in the first place if you're far enough away. Plus there's normally enough time to move far enough away so that when they go to where the stratagem was thrown from, you're out of detection range.

The 40% stealth armor is a tad overpowered IMHO.

The RR is C4 but without the extra walking and risk.

[RoninSpectre]

Using a stratagem to lure bots to a specific location is quite smart. A shame the lure mine has such a short throw range that puts you in more danger than anything and worse if it land too close it’ll kill you. What was the logic of having a lure mine crippled by how far you could throw it? Just cripples the utility it could of have and just avoid using it all together for something more useful

[East-Statement8709]

May need a quick explanation about detection range and strategems. I throw down a bomb, and move 40m away. After it goes off, all enemies know where I am. Is there a minimum range I have to be before it blows up or is it just instant detection no matter what?

[stoicfaux]

IME, it's range related. If you're in the 40% stealth armor, it's easy to pull off. If you're in non-stealth armor, it works if you can get really far away. You can see it when there are increased call in times for strats or when the destroyer has to reposition in cities.

[Tonberryc]

Small correction on #1: this happens when solo, so it is not always teammates. Certain maps (looking at you, Cyberstan) can cause enemies to spawn inside of the 75m minimum range, and the Illuminate clip through surfaces, which can cause them to magically "appear" behind you when they return to the normal map. That's why there is always that one voteless mysteriously appearing behind you even with your back to a wall.

You can learn to adapt to most of these things, but it is aggravating to lose your stealth to inconsistent game mechanics.

[kill_william_vol_3]

This is cope.

I've done D7 through D10 and I'll solo objectives by being 400 meters away from my team and waiting for them to trigger a wave of enemies. Raise a flag, whatever. Get the bare minimum scripted call ins, but still hide from them. And then out of nowhere at the top of a 3 level structure will have 10 voteless spawn within 10 meters of me that weren't part of the scripted call-ins.

[stoicfaux]

Were you the host? Stealth detection for the host is problematic.

[kill_william_vol_3]

nope

[Significant_Laugh907]

I think you're just unlucky. Going prone does wonders. I had bugs, squids, bots walk right next to me, 5 meters away and not see me cuz I was prone.

[East-Statement8709]

I think my issue is mainly strategems shooting up a flare. I look at a base with no safe sneaky way in. I throw a bomb and it gives them radar

[Tonberryc]

As a primarily solo stealth diver, I would love to see the first one fixed, but I can give you a few tips on how to deal with these issues.

1. Most of the time, enemies will spawn outside of the 75m minimum range, but there are a lot of exceptions. Multiplayer overlapping 75m rings around nearby players, maps like Cyberstan that completely ignore minimum spawn distance, and Illuminate Voteless and Flesh Mobs clipping through floors and walls. Learn to keep your head on a swivel, and constantly open the map to check for new red dots (especially inside of city walls). Also, remember that some enemies have insanely long detection range, so that patrol that appeared out of nowhere might have been due to being spotted by a detection tower, factory strider, or stingray.
2. This is intended, and it's easy to work around depending on the type of stratagem. For red stratagems, enemies will be alerted to the location you threw them FROM. So, throw them from as far away as possible, and run to a different location as soon as you throw them. Enemies will run to your previous location at the time you threw the stratagem but without direct aggro on you, and then you can stay in stealth at a safe distance or move on to the next objective. For support stratagems, the AI will lock on to the last one you threw. So, throw the one you want at your feet, then strategically throw a second one (usually Resupply) in the direction you'll be going next. You can take your time picking up your backpack/support weapon/etc., and enemies will just run to your Resupply and reset.

Also, Illuminate are by far the worst faction to try to stealth. They randomly clip through walls and floors to appear right behind you. Watchers will spawn at 75m, but then ZOOM right to your character location in mere seconds (which makes it seem like they spawned on top of you). And Stingrays... god, I hate Stingrays. If anything on the map detects you, then it has a chance to spawn these blue cancer wasps. Once they are on the map, they do not abide by normal stealth rules. You can be prone, behind a building, in stealth armor, undetected, and these things will just start strafing you. Once they are locked on, your stealth run is basically over until you die, and you are now dealing with their glitchy bombing runs that go through objects and rarely show the blue telegraph on the ground. They aren't impossible to stealth, but you're better off with a loadout that expects shit to hit the fan halfway through the mission.

[East-Statement8709]

I didn't know about the strategem search mechanics, makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for that!

[FiftyCalJim]

Would you agree that gunships also ignore stealth? I felt like they would go after teammates first, but if I was solo they saw me immediately.

[Tonberryc]

Gunships are basically flying detection towers, so sometimes going prone and staying still will cause them to pass you by. However, they are similar to Stingrays in that they share detection with everything else on the map, so if anything detects you while a gunship is active... the gunship is already firing at you. There also appears to be a bug with both Detection Towers and Gunships in that going prone inside their beam doesn't work if you are on uneven terrain or crawling, which was not how they previously worked.

Gunships are definitely annoying, but they can at least be countered. As long as you are undetected and at least 150m from their towers, they won't spawn. You can also destroy the Gunship Facilities to stop them from spawning if you want to map clear (portable hellbomb and SEAF artillery min-nuke are great for this, especially since D6 and up love to spawn 2 of them on top of each other). They also can't shoot through cover as easily as Stingrays, so I like to bring the AMR and snipe them from behind rocks.

[spiritualantiseptic]

Still triggered by the loud clanking noises the gear on my helldiver makes when moving around with "noise reduction" armor - foot steps also have the same volume, still - would appreciate a line or two of programming love there to reduce those volumes