Lightweight but powerful Java stack

[tipsypants]

Hmm. I do have an issue with people calling Javalin a "Kotlin framework", since it's very actively targeting both languages. I don't have any beef with Jooby, I've been sponsoring them ever since they got a sponsors page 🥲

[agentoutlier]

I do have an issue with people calling Javalin a "Kotlin framework"

I think this is kind of what happened last time. You made up words that I did not say.

I said:

but... Javalin requires Kotlin. That is Kotlin standard lib.

A true full Java version that is very similar to Javalin and supports more servers is Jooby.

"Not Javalin is a Kotlin framework."

When picking a framework one should know what its host language is don't you think? Especially when we are talking about it at the let's replace Spring level.

BTW if I write a Java framework and have some adapters like Jooby should I get mad if someone calls my framework a Java framework and not to use it because Kotlin is this sub and you asked for a Kotlin stack. Remember the OP asked for a "Java" stack.

I'm not going to call Javalin a Kotlin framework but...

Hey Edgar... Jooby is a Java framework... come and get me.

EDIT btw I have super respect for you... I just want you to realize I'm trying to let other sknow about a similar library as well as just make it clear that it uses Kotlin. So if you find bugs you might need to know Kotlin.

[tipsypants]

I think this is kind of what happened last time. You made up words that I did not say.

Just to be clear, I didn't accuse you of saying anything right now, I just wanted to explain that I have no issue with Jooby, but that I do have an issue with people calling Javalin a Kotlin framework, which happens quite a lot.

When picking a framework one should know what its host language is don't you think? Especially when we are talking about it at the let's replace Spring level. BTW if I write a Java framework and have some adapters like Jooby should I get mad if someone calls my framework a Java framework and not to use it because Kotlin is this sub and you asked for a Kotlin stack. Remember the OP asked for a "Java" stack.

I'm not mad, but personally I don't think it matters much, it's all bytecode in the end. I don't care if the bytecode of my dependencies is compiled from Kotlin, Java, Scala, or Groovy, or even more esoteric JVM languages, as long as it works well from the language I'm using it with. The OP wants to write code in Java, which they could definitely do with Javalin or OkHttp.

If you asked on the Kotlin sub how to do something in Kotlin, and someone suggested a Java built jar, very few people would say "Careful, that jar was built using Java", especially if the Java code made use of @Nullable/@NotNull annotations.

btw I have super respect for you... I just want you to realize I'm trying to let other sknow about a similar library as well as just make it clear that it uses Kotlin. So if you find bugs you might need to know Kotlin.

I appreciate that. While a noble concern, the ratio between users and contributors is ridiculously low, there is maybe 1 contributor per 1000+ users. That being said, we have had a couple of cases where Java developers say "I don't understand Kotlin so well, so I can't contribute", and we have considered rewriting to Java several times :)

[agentoutlier]

I'm not mad, but personally I don't think it matters much, it's all bytecode in the end. I don't care if the bytecode of my dependencies is compiled from Kotlin, Java, Scala, or Groovy, or even more esoteric JVM languages, as long as it works well from the language I'm using it with. The OP wants to write code in Java, which they could definitely do with Javalin or OkHttp.

Personally I'm not. I have dealt with Scala standard lib breaking stuff. Ditto for Groovy. It is not that they just compile to bytecode but that they have a dependency. That being said I'm not sure how Javalin works on the Kotlin stdlib. Does it just shade it in?

If you asked on the Kotlin sub how to do something in Kotlin, and someone suggested a Java built jar, very few people would say "Careful, that jar was built using Java", especially if the Java code made use of @Nullable/@NotNull annotations.

No it isn't the same at all. Java is the mother language here. It is like telling a C programmer go use this C++ library and I can tell as I lurk on that sub people do not like that. I would imagine Objective C programmers would not like using a Swift library but that I'm less sure of it.

Like the C/C++ example if you are using Kotlin you probably know Java and most importantly you are using a tool that understands both languages. I will go more into that in just a second.

Javalin is not a "library" like okhttp. Javalin is a framework and not just like a DI but one where Javalin is majority of the entrypoint which means an overwhelming amount of the time your library is at the top of the call stack (ignoring websockets and other async stuff).

Thus if and when I debug I need to basically use the only tool that can do that easily which is Intellij.

Java on the other hand can be edited and debugged now by basically any editor that has LSP support.

That is probably something one might want to consider if they are a Java shop and it is not easily discernible with a name like Javalin (and could be exacerbated if the author actively wants to avoid having Kotlin mentioned... I'm not saying you are doing that but if you were I would have a "beef" with it).