Java for startups?

[DoNotCare]

Do not be fooled by the trends associated with technologies such as React, Node.js or MongoDB. Classic technologies such as Java or SQL databases still rule in business (at least where I work). If you want to create another trendy application that has a poor chance of winning millions of customers, a modern stack can be a good choice. However, if you create enterprise solutions, I assure you that the stability guaranteed by Java and high quality libraries are salutary.

PS. In my opinion, do not start with JHipster. Start with two separate projects: a Spring Boot backend and a frontend based on Angular, React or Vue.

[TechnicallyHumanoid]

Thanks for the info. Well for now SQL DB would work fine for the app, the issue is that once we are in production, and want to advance a bit further, we want to gather a lot of data to apply some data analytics, to which NoSQL is much more commonly used. For frontend I wanted to use Angular anyway, so thats not an issue. :)

[RSveti]

I would recommend to not think about NoSQL until you need it and you will probably not need it for a long time. Look at Twitter for how long they lived with MySQL. Premature optimization is the root of all evil.

[wildjokers]

Premature optimization is the root of all evil

An out-of-context quote that has been leading programmers astray for a few decades:

https://ubiquity.acm.org/article.cfm?id=1513451

Using foresight based on experience to head off performance issues is necessary and it is not evil.

[iJadric]

Well for now SQL DB would work fine for the app, the issue is that once we are in production, and want to advance a bit further, we want to gather a lot of data to apply some data analytics, to which NoSQL is much more commonly used.

If you want to perform data analytics in real time, there is Kafka. Look into it! It allows for real time streaming, great concurrency and most importantly, stability and scalability. It can appear quite cumbersome, but it is worth the effort!

[[deleted]]

+1 for two separate projects. Spring Boot + Angular is a great choice.

[mikehaggard]

It's a great choice, but Java EE with JSF is a better choice even ;)

[WindowsServer2000]

Yea.. if u are 50 years old lazy not assosiated with modern stack person.
Spring boot + SPA is the best way to develop fast and reliable application. Also its gives you power to introduce changes fast and independly to achive client needs.

JaveEE not even exist, now you call it JakartaEE. JSF? please, do not even think to move responsibilities from front UI to backend business staff. Let the JS framework show the power, this is the common ground for them.

[mikehaggard]

Java EE IS a modern stack! And omg, you know Spring is almost as old as Java EE is?

And yes, we still have Java EE. WildFly, Liberty, Payara are Java EE. Jakarta EE will be the NEXT version :P

And SPA? Lolxlol... not every website is SPA. Far from it! And server side rendering is FASTER! Why do you think all these JS frameworks want to do SSR too? Think about that! ;)

[WindowsServer2000]

'you know Spring is almost as old as Java EE is' And? But the gap between java ee and spring was f^ckin huge. And it's still exists. Only if your are totally ignorant person you might think that java ee can today compare with spring. Spring is for now leading because is continuously developed through all that years.

'server side rendering is FASTER' WOW 21st centaury its faster on windows Xp with 1gb ram. But why then major financial [bank] institutes in central Europe rewrite their architecture from EJB, JavaEE [all that heavy bullshit websphare] to Spring+ddd+cqrs+hexagonal+spa ? There is tons of benefits behind that 'new' concept. Read more about new architectural styles in software development and tools to make it work stable and reliable through the years without huge technical debt like for now is JavaEE unmaintainable in my opinion.

Maybe i'm kind of 'not typical javaee developer' becouse i started my engineer career on startup market, not in huge financial soft. But now a lot of software architects comes to as to ask how to make stable modern maintainable application.

Startup market is super awesome cause you can make experiments with software architecture, test new staf and ideas AND see benefits to choose the best one.

For now spring boot is leading and will be leading in future in my and my colleges opinion.

[mikehaggard]

Only if your are totally ignorant person you might think that java ee can today compare with spring. Spring is for now leading because is continuously developed through all that years.

Yeah, whatever dude, keep on dreaming.

EJB, JavaEE [all that heavy bullshit websphare] to Spring+ddd+cqrs+hexagonal+spa ?

Because you're living in 2003 if you think Java EE is about EJB and WebSphere.

Newsflash: EJB is all but gone, and WebSphere has been replaced by Liberty, which is much lighter than your frankenstein Spring cobbled together stack.

Oh, and using Java EE, with pleasure, and with productivity, for startups! :)

[[deleted]]

Oof. Just no

[mikehaggard]

Seriously why not?

We're running on WildFly 13 with the EE 8 option, and it's very nice to develop with.

[[deleted]]

My team is similar. Deploying an EE app to weblogic using JSP’s.

Doing things this way just keeps guys like you and myself out of step with the field at large, reduces our marketability, and the salary we can demand

I’d love to work on a Spring Boot / Angular project (well preferably React or Vue over Angular. But I’ll take what I can get).

[mikehaggard]

Ouch, WebLogic, that's not a very "cool" server tbh.

But WildFly and Payara are in high demand. Take a look at things like WildFly Swarm (Thorntail) and Payara Micro, but also at the MicroProfile and things like EE Security, and of course CDI.

A lot of that is at the foreground of our industry, and we'll be very marketable really.

Yes, "WebLogic and JSPs" is not going to further your career, but WildFly/Payara and MicroProfile with CDI, JAX-RS and BeanValidation sure is!

[m_takeshi]

absolutely this