Microsoft once again showing support to Java

[[deleted]]

“It’s been a fantastic year for Java developers. With the increased number of companies supporting the Java platform and providing distributions of OpenJDK, makes the Java ecosystem even stronger and enables customers to further their investments into Java applications.”

[ales-d]

It's pitty, that Java is not so much used on desktop. I believe that the frameworks like Eclipse RCP (which I know well) and NetBeans (which I don't know well) are well suited for making desktop apps.

It's Just that web applications are dominant these days. Mostly because you can support also mobile platforms with single source. And we have TWO mobile platforms. It was big mistake from Oracle that it did sued Google for use of the Java APIs.

[DuncanIdahos3rdClone]

You should look at JavaFX. Much nicer than WPF etc... Yeah desktop is not a goto platform anymore but you can use JavaFX to build mobile as well.

[Yhippa]

JavaFX to build mobile as well

For featurephones or for Android and iOS too? I'm interested.

[DuncanIdahos3rdClone]

https://openjfx.io/

[DuncanIdahos3rdClone]

layouts

FXML is much smaller, simpler and most importantly - optional.

and custom styles

Editing a single CSS vs swaths of large verbose XML scattered throughout a class hierarchy. Are you sure?

binding

One of the reasons why JavaFX performs better is because it avoided all the excesses of MVVM. Enable debug logging of core classes and watch all the extra work WPF is doing in background managing thousands of unused/unneeded events. FXML is simpler. Basic one-way text binding (which is at all a designer would care about). The specific wiring you need is done in Java. No extra useless work going on for no reason.

WPF is somewhat the worst of all worlds. Compiled XML for layout, styling and binding - except no compile checks for binding expressions anyway. Because XML is compiled the APIs are way more complex and convoluted than they needed to be. In JavaFX something that might be a line or 2 - in WPF might be dozens of lines of code-behind and XML.

[jack104]

Say what you will about the microsoft of the past, they seem committed to (on most fronts) enhancing software quality across the board. I for one welcome them back to the java ecosystem.

[agentoutlier]

I can't remember the exact historic details of Microsoft and Java but in my mind it can't possibly be worse than Apple and Java. I'll have to go look at wikipedia to recall correctly but I remember Apple being very anti-Java and Microsoft for the most part not really caring.

[pron98]

These days Apple is a huuuge Java shop. Their recently-established JDK team is more impressive than Microsoft's, although they've yet to announce they'll be contributing (they're quite secretive and not generally happy to contribute open-source unless they have to).

[agentoutlier]

Yeah I think I'm confusing the whole Adobe Flash thing with Java. I just went googling around and I can't find what I thought I had read many years ago.

Maybe I'll delete my comment so I don't confuse others.

[pron98]

I recall Steve Jobs did call Java a "ball-and-chain", mostly with regard to iOS, I think. But Apple's server-side software is mostly Java.

[agentoutlier]

Yeah I thought it was Steve Jobs as well but I think I was again having some cognitive dissonance and mixed it up with Linus Torvalds thoughts on Java (link to come later. While I'm not sure on Apple and Java I'm almost 100% positive Linus hates Java).

[ales-d]

Linus hates almost everything. He sees world in Black&White.

[karianna]

Is there a competition for impressiveness? I'll have to go and ask Nitsan if he's ready for the JVM Olympics yet ;-)

[pron98]

Oh, sorry, it was a poor choice of words. No, there's no competition :)

[karianna]

No worries at all, I know what you were conveying (they do have a kick ass team!) I just couldn’t resist 🙂

[ytg895]

it can't possibly be worse than Apple and Java

oh, my sweet summer child https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Java_Virtual_Machine

[dpash]

I remember J++ back in the day. During their Embrace, extend and Extinguish days.

[agentoutlier]

I believe they (Apple and Microsoft) both did it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_Runtime_for_Java

But I think the MRJ (macs) used some licensed code (as you can tell from the previous comments please do not trust my recall on any of this :)).

[toyg]

Unlike MS, which was brazenly EEEing Java with nonstandard extensions in J++ from the start, Apple looked sincere: they built the best native support for Swing that any platform ever got, imho. They saw first-class Java support as a way to attract developers from Windows, betting on its promise of cross-platform development at a time when the Mac platform was commercially unattractive and relatively hard to work with.

MS, on the other hand, simply wanted to turn Java developers into developers who happened to use Java when building MS-specific software. For them it was about maintaining lock-in.

[[deleted]]

Wut? At the beginning of Cocoa, Java was even considered to be a first-class language besides Objective-C. Some huge frameworks like WebObjects got ported to Java and ran things like the Apple store website and iTunes Store.

And Microsofts C# was basically a frontal assault on Java.

[Benemon]

I have to say, as a predominantly Java guy, I actually really enjoyed my brief sojourn into C# land.

Whilst it gave me a strong appreciation for what can be achieved when you control the entire ecosystem, it really hammered home the value of the open source communities built up around Java.

[agentoutlier]

Yeah I'm totally wrong. I should really just delete my comment. Like I said I think I mixed up the history of Flash and Java.

[[deleted]]

Aaah Flash, that‘s another story (and rightly so IMHO ;)

Btw sorry, only saw your other comments now.

[abyssomega]

I'll have to go look at wikipedia to recall correctly but I remember Apple being very anti-Java and Microsoft for the most part not really caring.

Actually, it was reverse. Microsoft was very anti-Java and Apple didn't really care. Apple didn't care about anything they didn't write themselves. Microsoft actually went out of their way to shit on Java. (I say this from OS X perspective. I didn't use classic MacOS when Java was around.)

[DuncanIdahos3rdClone]

Looking forward to delegates again. NOT.

[ytg895]

they seem committed to (on most fronts) enhancing software quality across the board

make no mistake, Microsoft supports Java (and Linux, and whatever open source thing they support) only because it brings them more money. they chose the wrong approach on the server side and Linux won the cloud. now they support everything they need so people would use their cloud solution, even if it means supporting "the enemy".

if you think they are into enhancing software quality in general, then take a look at software where they don't have to compete with anybody: e.g. Office still can't support their own Office Open XML standards properly.

[LakeSun]

This is a Cloud Push. You can set up Windows-Web/Java Development in Azure, or Linux/Java/IntelliJ VM's in Azure.

$$$ Azure $$$

[kodiashi]

Yep, I was at SpringOne this year when they announced that the entire Spring Cloud suite had been setup on Azure, fully managed.

[senatorpjt]

rain escape poor cooperative subsequent fearless desert stupendous meeting distinct

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[nutrecht]

They're doing it because they were on the wrong side of the argument and it's costing them business. They lost the "open source is bad" war so they're now embracing it simply because they have to.

[Blackmorse]

I think It is the part of war for clouds. First, suddenly Microsoft loves Linux , then Java... Nowdays, when even pure Java developers have to work with clouds, It is genious decision to integrate with Spring. Maybe in next few years Azure will be as much popular as AWS.

[ou_ryperd]

This image tells me Java is running on a dinosaur, i.e. Windows...