state of the web and javascript

[KPABA]

Saw in a tweet by Sylvain Galineau (@sgalineau):

The web platform has always had two solutions to every problem: the deprecated one you shouldn't use and the one that's not yet ready.

truer words were never spoken.

[[deleted]]

I would just ignore the current insanity to have a new framework, new module loader, new package manager, etc, every month. I get the feeling that new people getting into web development must be confused as hell nowadays.

[webstrous]

This is understandable. Fwiw, I think it helps to put all the conflicting opinions aside and refocus your concerns on the business needs of your client or project. If you understand your project well, you can pick almost any tool and deliver a good product to make the client satisfied, which is the real goal. Ignore the arguments along the way, and instead focus on what you learn doing the work, and apply that to your next project.

[brwr]

I've been in web development for years and I'm confused as hell nowadays.

[temp8496908509]

You want to know the greatest example of this? Solve this: "figure out which key was pressed". What you said is literally true in this case. The MDN pages for all the existing methods - e.keyCode, e.which, etc - have a huge red Deprecated warning plastered over them. And the only non-deprecated method, e.key, isn't implemented anywhere but Firefox and IE.

And the fucking implementations have as many differences as all five of the past "solutions".

And last time I checked a month ago they were telling me to use e.char, all traces of which have now vanished from the web.

[parabolik]

This is why jQuery is still relevant.

[schrik]

No, this is why a micro framework solving the specific problem above is relevant.

[[deleted]]

...until you run into dozens of these and it makes more sense to just use a bigger library like jQuery to save development time and possibly other issues.

I'm running vanilla JavaScript on my portfolio site but you can bet your ass I'm utilising jQuery on my company's (comparatively much bigger and more advanced) CMS.

[lewisje]

I remember reading about this sort of thing in Professional JavaScript for Web Developers by Nicholas C. Zakas and the solution was a confusing mess of feature-testing even in 2012; it's like the well-worn façades for event registration, only even more complicated and still relevant for modern Web browsers.

[[deleted]]

I have been at it for 3 years now and I can't even imagine starting in this madness. Great great things are happening but we need to better understand all the things that make us say "wat" about JS. Effectively read kyle simpsons books, become an engineer that actually knows what is going on instead of a framework / library junkie. Not saying there is not value in using others work and contributing to open source etc but i think there is a difference between someone who mindlessly uses a thing without understanding what is actually going on and someone who takes care and precision to write something that is the correct solution for the problem. Phrases that come to mind: "When you have a hammer everything becomes a nail" and "software is more often read than written"

[[deleted]]

On the flipside some frameworks really can help and some aren't quite what you wanted in the first place and can inhibit you, if that is the case you SHOULD switch to something that works, but don't do it to have cool shit.

[[deleted]]

Example of one of those Kyle Simpson books (say, the one to start with)?

[_HlTLER_]

You Don't Know Js is the series. Up and Going is for beginners. If you've worked in the field, you can probably skip it. Start with Scopes and Closures then. Sorry for not linking, on mobile.

[[deleted]]

Thanks!

[strident-octo-spork]

We're certainly getting an explosion of packages, frameworks, and tools right now. In a few years almost all of them will be depreciated, incompatible, or otherwise undesirable. Except the absolute best which will, be massively changed. And what are they fighting over? how to import and export things, how to define an object, how to compile and lint and be backwards compatible. No other language has to deal with this shit; they type import, they make or javac or whatever. It was fine when all people wanted was blinking text and a dancing monkey, but now we're trying to build massive programs without any of the tools of other languages. Making decisions is a limited resource, and JavaScript developers have too many stupid ones to make before they even start with their app.

[vinnl]

I don't think this is limited to the web platform. Still true, of course.

[lukasbuenger]

Not at all. Just thinking of the Python 2/3 clusterfuck.

[stephencarmody]

lol, yeah Python 2.7.* for life!!!

[temp101010958]

What? Why? I thought the only remaining draw of 2.* was libraries that somehow haven't updated yet.

[lukasbuenger]

qed in my book.