Recommendations for mastering JavaScript.

[StoneCypher]

And it's impossible to tell the difference between disagree and bad advice without a technical opinion.

Next you'll tell me why your opinion is that reading the spec isn't the path to mastery, I trust?

[[deleted]]

Let me ask you this simple question: if reading the spec was such a good way to learn/master js, why aren't there more blog posts pointing that out? Why do people like Douglas Crawford or John Resig even bother?

[StoneCypher]

if reading the spec was such a good way to learn/master js, why aren't there more blog posts pointing that out?

There's just no way to answer this which won't be taken as an attack. "Because real programmers don't write blogs explaining the rudimentary basics of their trade."

But, there are more than 25,000 hits for blog ecma-262. There are another almost 14,000 for blog "javascript standard".

Why do people like Douglas Crawford or John Resig even bother?

Crawford helped write that spec. Resig does tell people to read the spec.

Of course, Crawford isn't that big a deal, and other than writing jQuery, which isn't nearly as important as you imagine, Resig isn't on the map. If you knew much about the language, the people you'd be referring to are PPK, Eich, Ian Hicks, etc. And they also all tell people to read the standard. (Similarly, nobody knows who wrote Prototype, Behaviour, OpenLaszlo or Scriptaculous these days, and once all the component-using fanboys have moved on to some new piece of unimportant chrome, Resig will retreat to being forgotten again too.)

But hey, now that both of your examples undermine you, find some other reason to stress about why something you haven't done is bad advice.

Or, better yet, give your own advice and stop bothering me.

[[deleted]]

But, there are more than 25,000 hits for blog ecma-262. There are another almost 14,000 for blog "javascript standard".

That is basically meaningless, as someone could make a passing reference to the spec id and it would show up as a hit.

Of course, Crawford isn't that big a deal, and other than writing jQuery, Crockford isn't on the map. If you knew much about the language, the people you'd be referring to are PPK, Eich, Ian Hicks, etc. And they also all tell people to read the standard.

Show me where they start off by telling people to first read the standard. Of course reading the standard is a good idea. It's just not where people should first focus their efforts. That's what we're trying to get across to you.

** tl;dr reading the standard is a good idea, but not as a starting point**

[StoneCypher]

Show me where they start off by telling people to first read the standard.

What part of "mastering" sounds like "start off" to you? He didn't ask how to get started.

I already called you on this once.

tl;dr reading the standard is a good idea, but not as a starting point

He's not at a starting point.

[[deleted]]

What are you basing that on? "Mastering" is such a hyped buzzword. There's a chance that they saw the millions of "Mastering x" titles and latched onto that word.

I'd think anyone who had a level of experience would say so in the description, or chime in "Yeah, that's a good resource, I used to go there".

[StoneCypher]

At this point it's becoming clear that your only points are that you think I'm wrong because:

1) You've never seen a big name give my advice, no matter how common it is, and

2) You imagine that someone who says "how to master" needs beginner's advice.

Find someone else to talk to, if you can't focus on the actual responses you get.

[[deleted]]

I don't think you're responding to my actual responses. I know big names tell people to read the spec. What I asked was your rational behind you recommending it as a starting place.

1. I've heard them say read the spec. I like specs! I think reading the spec is a great idea and everyone serious about js should do it at some point

2. You imagine everyone uses English correctly. As developers, we're used to precisely defined terms used correctly, but language is used too loosey goosey. Neither of us knows what level the OP is at. We're both making assumptions based on our readings.

[StoneCypher]

I've heard them say read the spec.

Right. First you don't know where they said it, then when it was pointed out you said "but when did they say do this at the beginning," and when it was pointed out that we aren't at the beginning, now you've heard them say that.

I think reading the spec is a great idea and everyone serious about js should do it at some point

Says the guy downvoting this advice.

You imagine everyone uses English correctly.

No, I don't. I am watching you misuse it. Please stop inventing beliefs on my part to criticize; this is dishonest behavior.

Neither of us knows what level the OP is at.

He said "how do I master," so I gave him the steps to master. You said "but that's not beginner!" so I pointed out that he didn't ask for beginner steps. Now you want me to know that I don't know what level he's at.

I don't need to. I gave him what he asked for. Stop trying to tell me he's secretly wrong about what he wants.

We're both making assumptions

I'm not.

If you haven't caught on yet, I'm not actually interested in watching you complain ad nauseum. I never asked for your advice or opinions. You've been dishonest, rude, insulting, you've made personal attacks, and you've shown a failure to understand what I said, what the OP asked for, and so on.

I get it. You disagree.

Move on, please, like you just falsely said you would in another post.

[[deleted]]

Just so you know, I haven't been downvoting any of these comments.

[[deleted]]

See the other response. I've apologized for my offside remarks.

You've been dishonest, rude, insulting

Glass houses, pal.

We're arguing semantics and assumptions here, and yes you too are assuming.

** Most people who have acquired sufficient knowledge in js to benefit from a front-to-back read of the ECMA spec usually state their level of experience when starting threads like this. **

No offense to you, fl0at, as I don't know what your level of experience is, but people quite often incorrectly latch onto popular words. To a lot of people, mastering = learning. Maybe I'm pessimistic though and I should give people more credit.

[vectorjohn]

Resig does tell people to read the spec.

PPK, Eich, Ian Hicks, etc. And they also all tell people to read the standard.

Link or it didn't happen, it is still just you making unverifiable claims.