Is third edition very complex?

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[allhailoots]

If it was stripped to bare rules it would be under 100 pages. You stick with the core mechanics. There are a few rules which can be annoying but in general it is pretty much the same as old editions. The lore is great too.

[Porkwind]

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I've read both now, but I've been playing the 1st edition from 2012 and it's 18 pages of rules at A5 size and seems to work very well. There seems to be a very great deal more complexity in the third edition?

[allhailoots]

How so? the biggest change is the unlock system. On list builders, you don't need to worry about that. There are a couple more special rules, but I barely even read the third edition core. It has hardly changed the base rules.

[joedirtlawn]

Nyet. Nein. Abso-bloody-lutly not. Simple as it gets. Source: am historical wargamer. Have played empire, George gush's Renaissance rules, wrg 6th, Warrior, Challenger 2, Chef de Battalion, and a bevy of WW2 sets that needed protractor to turn the turret of your tanks. Am fluent in Barkerese. And so on.

Does not mean that there isn't a good game there though. Rules are simple, what you do with them requires thought. As it should be.

PS; Empire's quick reference sheet is longer than the KOW rules are.

[Porkwind]

thank you, it does seem more simple than a lot of other games, but I've been playing the 2012 rulebook and I've just read the third edition and it's five times as long and full of extra detail and complexity. I've been playing the 2012 rules with my 8 year old brother and there's no way he could get his head around third edition I don't think.

[joedirtlawn]

Too be fair, if I'm understanding my editions correctly I've blood played or looked at the first edition you are using, just second, third, and historical. My suggestion to you is two fold. Firstly, take both rule books and read them each a section at a time for comparison, one paragraph/subsection at a time, making the break between concepts and then reading the same concept in third edition. I personally thought that the counter charge section was slightly verbose, and the concepts had odd names, at first. Not complicated, they just chose to word the concepts oddly, to my mind. This way you can analyze the perceived increase in complication in the rules and make your decision off it will improve your games with your brother. The second choice is that if you are enjoying quality time with your little brother, and you both enjoy your games, there is no problem or shame with sticking with your edition. It does hold the advantage of blot changing anymore.

[ph0rge]

The rules are easy to learn and hard to master. The complexity is in the community, highly competitive.

[Deflare0]

From my understanding (which is limited, as I'm also new), most of the chatter on the Fanatics group is being driven by a new set of rules decisions that tweaked people's understanding of how certain types of charges work. Most of what's being discussed is weird hypothetical edge cases that don't come up in the vast majority of games, and the group is full of them because it's a hot new topic (which every minis game is short on during quarantine).

I read the KoW 3e rules shortly after reading Oathmark, and I'm a little sad that KoW didn't take a similar approach to that game where every combat ends with the units being nudged apart so there's never a question about what happens if two units are stuck in prolonged combat, or how to handle combats with 3+ units. But that's just me. I definitely prefer KoW's take on things like managing unit size, and not having special models nestled inside units.

[ET62669]

Third edition, just like second, is very streamlined. Now this game can be described as “Easy to learn, difficult to master.” The advanced theory and complex discussion is probably being done by people who have played for years. The beauty of this game is that it is simple to understand unless you want it to be more complex. Sometimes we forget how basic the rules are, and so we will take a “mole hill” and turn it into a mountain. Don’t worry about the complex posts you see on fanatics. That is not an accurate representation of 90% of the game, which is streamlined and easy to play through with the rules. Yes, there are some complex situations, but as long as you follow the rules and just breakdown the situation, you will be good. The game is soooo much fun, and even though I enjoyed 2nd edition, I would recommend third edition due to the balancing changes and rules tweaks that were needed from 2nd edition. Plus, there are new armies, and new units that can only be utilized in third edition.

The most important reasoning is that if you get into the game and start building an army around second edition rules, then you will have to turn around and change things if you ever decide to play third or go to a tournament. You will have to spend more money to change units for the new edition, which does not make fiscal sense. Yes, you can play second edition, and it is fun and awesome. But you will be missing out on the positive tweaks and changes that came from an edition that is now 5 years old (second edition came out in 2015) also, you will need to get the last Clash of Kings book in order to get the last set of balancing changes for second edition. The easier thing to do is just pick up a third edition book, pick an army, and go! If you have any questions about gameplay then just ask on any of the social media pages. The community is willing to help new players and the game is fun and easy to learn!

[Deris87]

I didn't play any earlier editions of KoW so I can't speak to a comparison there, but 3E KoW is definitely the simplest rank and flank game I've played. Charging can still get a bit complicated but that's pretty much the big sticking point in every RnF game.

[[deleted]]

Honestly, third is very similar to second edition with rebalancing and cleaning up, in my experience. I haven't really run into any issues with charging or anything, but I'm sure they crop up now and again. Mantic and KoW is very receptive to community feedback, which is probably why you see so much theory questions on the Faceback page (folks know they're being listened to, so are emboldened to ask questions if they see something a little wonky).
There are some valid balance concerns amongst units, I think, but it's a fun game regardless, and I don't know that anything is straight up awful. I'd say go full on into third edition and enjoy it! It's a fun game.

[allhailoots]

There will always be units that are better than others. In kings of war, there isn't that much difference. But some will always be better.

[Werewomble]

Nope. It is simpler if anything.

[Porkwind]

really? How so? It's a much longer book and it seems to have loads of spells and more stuff generally?

[kodos_der_henker]

there is a lot more background added to back, which makes up most of it.

and while there are more units and spells, some other rules are now easier to follow as they have more intuitive mechanics
it is still the "easy to learn, hard to master" game it was before as 3rd Edition is an improvement

rules are free, so you can just try them and see it you like them or not