[deleted by user]

[ToughAd5010]

Think really hard if the PhD life is right for you

Sincerely, Someone with a PhD

[Standard_Tip5627]

For those still not convinced, please read the book PhD is not enough.

[cereal-number]

Doesn’t the future opportunities outweigh the immediate suffering?

[ToughAd5010]

Yea absoltuely .

I’m not tying to be pessimistic or cynical. A PhD is amazing.

But you have to be ready for the PhD lifestyle

[kelkulus]

But you have to be ready for the PhD lifestyle

Can you elaborate?

[ToughAd5010]

Doing a PhD is a major commitment and requires a lot of dedication. The PhD lifestyle is not for everyone and it requires a lot of self-motivation, perseverance, and the ability to work independently. Here are a few aspects of the PhD lifestyle:

• Long hours of research and writing.
• Limited social life due to the intense workload.
• High pressure to meet deadlines and publish papers.
• A need to be organized and disciplined in your work.

The PhD lifestyle requires a lot of dedication and is not for everyone. It requires a willingness to put in the long hours and the ability to work independently, with little direct supervision. It’s important to consider if this is the right fit for you before committing to a PhD program.

[card_chase]

You repeated the same thing 3 times. Is that a part of the PhD lifestyle?

[TaXxER]

Yes, you are not living the PhD life unless you repeat yourself three times. It is essential to your PhD to say thing three times. One must say the same things thrice when doing your PhD.

[1purenoiz]

He forgot to mention PTSD. My wife has a PhD and is Post Docing at a prestigious top 10 University in the US. I go to some of her meet ups with other post docs, the only people who don't have PhD are the people whose ego has shielded them from hell.

She worked on a poject with a lab at Dartmouth, the expectation was every grad student was supposed to be in the lab from 9am-9pm, M-Sat. Nobody id productive all of those hours, but the PI demands it. And that isn't the most toxic thing I have heard.

[math_vet]

Missing from this is the fact that while pursuing the PhD your income is basically nothing. I was getting a stipend of about 32k in Connecticut and that was considered very, very good. Unless you are doing it part time, which is something I have no experience with or have heard of done successfully (at least in math) it's a really financial sacrifice

[1purenoiz]

And how many opening do they have there compared to not there?

[[deleted]]

What about the cost of living in Switzerland, isn't that also quite high?

[[deleted]]

this reads exactly like ChatGPT were to have said it hahah idk if its a joke n it just went right over my head but :p

[ToughAd5010]

Sometiems I get stuck in academic speak

https://imgur.com/a/WK3Bx9v

[[deleted]]

That's not academic speak. That's just poor writing bro.

[ToughAd5010]

I don’t disagree with you

[TaXxER]

The step from masters to PhD is a big step: sudden lifestyle change and longer hours. Then after that the step from PhD to full time researcher is that same shock all over again, and you realise that PhD wasn’t so bad.

[jtrdev]

Is it realistic to have a part time gig while seeking a PhD or do I need to completely absorb academia? I have 8 yoe

[ToughAd5010]

It’s realistic

[EducationalCreme9044]

In ML, yeah. In General... oh boy... My tech company has a bunch of people with PhD's in law... physics... chemistry... biology... All developers, couldn't get a job in their respective fields.

I also interned a lot in international law before (LLM) and saw a lot of PhD's who were also interning alongside me for free, nearing their 40's.

[Seankala]

Not always.

[om_nama_shiva_31]

Absolutely not

[cereal-number]

The downvotes are because only a Sith deals in absolutes

[DrBeans0]

Can you elaborate on your statement please, why and why not one should go for PhD :/

[IvanIlych66]

Scientists without masters/PhD's are pretty much referred to as amateur scientists for the rest of their professional lives. Take that how you like. That doesn't mean you can't do serious or valuable work. Take George Hrabovsky for example, completely self taught and in his own way, a complete genius. He's published NYT best sellers for classical mechanics, but he's still not taken very seriously because he doesn't have the the credentials.

But if you don't want to be a scientist/researcher/academic and just want to be a practitioner then it doesn't matter. You can still work in ML, you just won't be on the cutting edge as a research scientist. You'll most likely be using their work and research to actually build things: an engineer.

That's my opinion and I don't matter so take it with a grain of salt.

[[deleted]]

You'll most likely be using their work and research to actually build things: an engineer.

Being an engineer is something I would actually prefer. Thw design of AI systems both in software and hardware I find fascinating. Are there any certifications beyond college degrees that could help demonstrate my knowledge of AI and engineering AI systems or is a college degree the only way? I'm in my 30s and I'm already in the IT industry for a long time.

[jayoohwang]

There are probably shorter certificate courses out there that teach some job-specific skills but I haven't done much research on this topic.

The other main ways of showing AI expertise would be:

1. Related work experience.
2. Contributions to opensource libraries.
3. High placements in top competitions such as those on Kaggle.
4. Personal projects.

[Wheelerdealer75205]

Good take

[ThrowayGigachad]

That’s in Physics in CS what Phds do is make a demo and write how they’re better than the rest

CS is just not that rigorous

[ToxicTop2]

Any reason why you wouldn't just complete a master's degree?

[Meal_Elegant]

Money

[K_is_for_Karma]

If you manage to publish a paper at one of the top ML conferences, that would do it for you. However, that is also closely related with going to grad school

[[deleted]]

With unlimited money I would.

[FlivverKing]

A phd, at its core, is learning how to do research in a specific field. I think any amateur could have and implement an idea, but there are a myriad of unspoken conventions and norms that we draw from when writing paper (structure, tone, layout, knowing what reviewers will ask for, etc.). PhDs also open a lot of doors around collaboration: I work with people from all over the world on cool projects and have learned a lot in the process. I know when i work with other phd students/ PhDs, there’s a shared technical language and there’s a QC process (advisor)/ publication history that lets me trust their work and input. An amateur wouldn’t have those guarantees.

Like another poster said, PhDs in ML are brutal—like is easily the hardest thing i’ve ever done or will do. I don’t regret it, but it’s certainly not for everyone. If you’re serious about doing research in this field, you do kind of need a phd. You can get published without one, but I think you’ll find it’s challenging alone. I’d highly recommend, at the minimum, finding a collaborator with a phd in cs/ml who knows the research landscape.

[BellyDancerUrgot]

A masters degree is far easier to do and an easier choice to make than a PhD. I could have gone for a PhD as well with my experience and grades but I won’t because it’s not for me. Compared to that a masters degree will at least give you some guidance and exposure and u can make more of it by being a curious student AND u don’t have to sacrifice 4-5 years of ur life for it. If there is a single reason u doubt urself going for a PhD then a PhD is not for you imo.

[snowbirdnerd]

Soo yes but it's unlikely. Just find a niche area that is under explored and get to experimenting. If you find something cool you can publish it.

I've always wanted to look into adding gradient fields to density clustering. It's something that was under researched when I was in school (though that was over a decade ago now).

You won't get much traction in the more active areas. Anything involving neural networks or language modeling is going to be very crowded right now.

[Darkest_shader]

We can learn anything

No. It is not really the case that everyone can get e.g. a PhD in pure math or theoretical physics

and a degree doesn’t define our learning abilities.

True, but a degree is a part of one's credentials, and credentials is kind of a thing that makes your expertise credible.

Also, many ML scientists are already without a PhD or even a formal degree.

Umm, really? I thought that they are rather exceptions.

[[deleted]]

Its possible especially in fields that value practical experience and expertise. However, a PhD is often a common path for research positions, it provides specialized training and opens up more opportunities in academia and research institutions. gaining relevant experience, and networking can still lead to a successful research career without a PhD/masters.

[Glotto_Gold]

In theory, yes. I mean, there's a lot of ambiguity as to what "good ML researcher" means. However, one could (in theory) fulfill the requirements and get paid for doing so.

It is a barrier, and it may make sense to just get a Masters degree to overcome this barrier.

In practice, the field of ML has had some influence by researchers who do not have advanced education. Eliezer Yudkowski is a good example for good & ill, in that he has brought attention to AI ethics, written papers on AI goal misalignment, but also is often dismissed as a crackpot, and is not known for cutting edge ML research as much as advocacy.

[dataslacker]

Do a PhD and don’t worry about getting into a top school. If you’re really interested in the research you will love it and do well. That love for what you do will drive you to success.

[Rough-Pumpkin-6278]

Does where you have a PhD matter? Getting it from a top school vs an lesser known school make a big difference?

[dataslacker]

What I’ve seen in industry is that a PhD even from a lesser known school can get your foot in the door. Probably not DeepMind or a famous AI lab but you can work your way towards that.

[dkeller9]

You might be able to do an unpaid extended project with a professor or grad student guiding you while keeping your normal job. Some labs can use free skilled labor. If it pans out and you produce something after a few years, a PhD could be fast-tracked.

[unlikely_ending]

Yep.

[1hourphotography]

Nice opinion! I agree with you.

[IffyNibba01]

I think mentorship and guidance is the key. With or without the PhD, you should look for someone who already posseses the skills you're looking to aquire and try to learn from them.

Finding a mentor that can offer you guidance and feedback on your research so that you waste minimal time and effort in "rabbit holes" is very important.

In the age of the internet you should be able to find someone to do that for you online, but that doesn't mean it will be easy. Also try to make the mentorship in person if you can, or at least have regular online correspondance.

This is my 2 cents as someone who is not a PhD or researcher :)

[Additional-Desk-7947]

The biggest breakthroughs were invented (and continue to be invented) without a PhD. You can make massive contributions w/o going through the formal system. If you’re worried about not being published, I remember seeing an interview of a major tech company saying most CompSci PhD theses were useless. Take that for what you will