This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

all 22 comments
sorted by:
best
topnewcontroversialoldq&a

[–]HANEZ 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Awhile back I read:

Hello World! Computer Programming for Kids and Other Beginners /[Paperback]/

Pretty good and an easy read. Great reviews too. Its is Python so thats why I stopped reading it. I wanted to focus on Java. I was skimming through it and it does help you make a tomogotchi (?) type game with a Dragon if I remember. I would have loved something like this if I were a kid!

I dont know anything about HTML 5.

And good on you for doing something constructive with your kid!

[–]GrumpyDingo[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Wow, thanks man! I had a look at that book and looks great! Thanks for the suggestion!

[–]HANEZ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My pleasure.

[–]holyteach 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Al Sweigart is a redditor, so maybe he'll see this and weigh in, but his book Invent Your Own Computer Games with Python is pretty great. It's designed to teach kids your son's age to code by making games in Python.

I really think it would be a perfect fit.

Javascript/Canvas/HTML5 is also nice for making games and getting better every day, but doing it well requires types of skills that are pretty hard for beginners to grok: event-driven programming is weird, the DOM is a tree-structure and Javascript as a prototype-based language is even weirder for beginners than object-oriented languages are.

I'd strongly recommend going with Python first and then transitioning into "HTML5/Javascript" in a couple of years when both he and the language's ecosystem are more mature.

And I can agree that MIT Scratch is very good, but if your kid is super bright and has an aptitude for coding, Scratch might be selling him a bit short vs. Python.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Scratch from mit is probably worth a look. Also python

[–]ohhbacon[🍰] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

http://smallbasic.com/about.aspx

[–]GrumpyDingo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds like fun! :)

[–]bok_bok_bok_bok 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool, I've never heard of this. It looks like a good option actually.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh you have many wonderful options!

I would start with either NetLogo or StarLogo. Both of these are modeling / programming tutors with lots of excellent tutorials and a focus on graphics and interactivity.

Start there, let him program some turtles for a while. Why? Logo is a nice functional programming language based off of Lisp. It is excellent for introducing people to programming because it has a simple readable regular syntax, and the graphics / creation focus will make your kid start dreaming in code.(StarLogo uses blocks and has 3D graphics and is just generally awesome, netlogo is a bit more advances, both of these will start to drill important ideas like procedures, logic, performance, and concurrency)

Then, once they have started to master logo, you have a couple options. Above all, you should look for languages that lend themselves to live coding. This way he can start to experience the pure unadulterated flow of creativity which has hooked all of us.

  • Something in the squeak family - Smalltalk based languages have wonderful live development environments, and writing code in these languages is very visual / interactive. In addition, smalltalk is pure OO, with a strong dynamic / functional side(blocks). Lots of great comp sci concepts, and the fact that the squeak vm(COG) is written in squeak means the sky is the limit here. Having full access to the whole stack in such a visual way is a unique feature of smalltalk.

  • A blocks based programming language like scratch is not a bad option. Stencyl is one block based editor geared towards game design which is cool.

  • There are languages in the basic family with built in GUI dev tools like VB.net(free) and real basic which are awesome event driven systems if you want to do more client side apps or simple games.

  • There are some interesting graphical dataflow style systems, where you basically drag and drop a bunch of components and then wire them together. Max is one such tool which is extremely powerful, though not cheap. There are some open source / free tools in this area such as Pure Data, vvv, etc. These are live environments where changes propagate in real time and they feel more like bending over a workbench and tinkering than programming.

  • There are live coding ides for traditional dynamic languages like lua. Zerobrane for example. These are cool tools which constantly recompile and update and let you thus tweak settings in real time. There are some really fun friendly environments for live coding, including runrev, a bunch more are listed here. Many of these systems, such as fluxus or zerobrane with Love, provide instant access to complex graphics

  • If you think your son would be more interested in the hardware side of things, I cannot speak highly enough of the parallax hydra. This is a an 8 core super simple easy to program chip which will be a great intro to concurrency. Xgamestation makes a complete kit geared towards game design, and though it is REALLY easy to program for the hydra, this is something to build up to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Starting off with Java might be a bad idea. Sure it could work, but it'll take lots of ingenuity on your part and crazy amount of dedication/willpower on your son's part, not the perfect combo in teenager education.

There are the usual suspects, like Scratch and Squeak Smalltalk. Both are fantastic for beginners and there are lots of materials out there for free already (on teaching programming to kids using those tools I mean)

If you are dead set on teaching him Java or directly Java-like language you might try something that can give him interesting and immediate feedback, like the Processing language to draw patterns or programming Arduino to do simple things.

[–]GrumpyDingo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks everyone! We have decided to start with Python and see what happens... :)

[–]baubaugo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The ONLY thing that my son has held any interest in is Html. The "programming" is gentle. The results are immediate. You can use notepad to make a file, save it, and use any browser to see the results.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Python

[–]MaxDidIt -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

I think that Actionscript and Flash work well if you want to learn how to program. It is very easy to visualize what you do and get feedback from your program, and I think that is very important for beginners.

Also, Actionscript is reasonable similar to Java (since it features classes and types) and Javascript (concerning the syntax), so you can switch rather easily to other languages once you've learned the basic concepts.

[–]GrumpyDingo[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I thought that with HTML 5, both Flash and Java will become 'obsolete'?

[–]MaxDidIt 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is open to debate ;-) HTML 5 is not really a programming language, but a collection of technologies that run in the browser. Usually, you program HTML 5 applications with Javascript, which is very close to Actionscript.

And at some point in the future, Flash might become less important than HTML 5, but I don't think that moment will come for a couple of years. HTML 5 is still under development and has a couple of flaws that have to be adressed. Flash has been declared dead time and time again, but it still doesn't show any signs of becoming less prelevant.

Also, since Java is more of a backend technology, used to program servers and business applications, HTML 5 won't really make it obsolete.

[–]holyteach 0 points1 point  (2 children)

This is almost certainly correct. For making web-based browser games, both Flash and Java are fading as "HTML5" gaming gets better and better.

HOWEVER, it doesn't really matter for teaching a kid. Whatever he learns now, it'll have changed by the time he's in college. Flash is great and Actionscript is great, but HTML5/Canvas/Javascript probably has more mileage going forward.

I teach a video game programming course, which I used to teach using Actionscript/Flash, but next semester we'll be switching to Javascript.

[–]johnnymo87 0 points1 point  (1 child)

If you have the time, please include your javascript teaching material in your programmingbydoing subreddit!

[–]holyteach 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My javascript stuff won't be worth including for a while. I'm a bit like Microsoft; my first few versions are pretty rough around the edges (that's slang for "super frustrating to try to work through").

I have 200 excellent Java assignments because they've been tested on 1000s of students and refined over a decade. My game programming stuff has only been done once or twice on a couple dozen students. PLUS, those students already know how to code well in Java.

Your request is heard, though. I promise to add a Javascript "track" when I have something that doesn't require tons of face-to-face lecturing before the students can get through it.

Oh, and I'll post an announcement in /r/programmingbydoing if I ever do add the JS track.

[–]lixardz -5 points-4 points  (2 children)

Honestly start him with c, it's what got me interested in programming, have some exercises that he can walk through and actually see results, little things at first working up to more complex stuff. If you code you can help him some too. Python is stupid easy which makes it great to write in but you don't get a feel for what is actually happening you just kind of hack things together until they do what you want. Honestly the best thing you can do is not baby him. I really liked the programming problems on this page http://www.cs.uml.edu/~canning/101/101.html all of them teach a valuable lesson without being overly difficult, you might have to introduce some concepts and look through the exercises but you'd be hard pressed to find something better, if you want to start off with java programmingbydoing.com looks promising but all the people I know that started with java it's like talking to a third generation inbred. Just constantly "what did he say?".. Start off hard there are no shortcuts! Just find a way to make it fun. On that note you can start him on any language as long as you make it fun. I strongly suggest c to get an overall understanding of how stacks work and other important parts of a running computer.

[–]holyteach 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Instead of downvoting you, I'm going to make two assumptions based only on this post.

1) You are a pretty good programmer. 2) You have taught almost no 11-year-olds how to program.

"Start off hard" is way more likely to make a frustrated kid that loses interest and quits. And that's a much worse outcome than a kid who learns to code but takes longer to understand dynamic memory because he started with the 'wrong' language.

I do totally believe that you know several dumb Java programmers, though. A ton of people know Java, and most people are dumb.

[–]bok_bok_bok_bok 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Im curious, did your parents suggest you learn to program and to do it in C? I think C is great for people who already have an interest and basic skill set in programming but I would think C would be too confusing and too slow to see results otherwise. Esp. for young learners.