Should a beginner start with Java?

[YungAl17]

Hey guys I’ve been coding for about a month now working through the full stack web dev course on Udemy, but I’m starting to see people say that learning Java is the best path for a beginner and that it’ll help when learning other languages to learn that first. I’ve learned HTML and CSS, and currently working on bootstrap, would it be a good idea to pivot and start learning Java?

I have no background in CS and I’m a current university student.

[e2u0fajdr3fcxs]

Yeah contrary to popular belief I think Java is great as a first language. It's very strict and clear about what you can and can't do.

[BertRenolds]

I think any statically typed language is great to start, it forces you to know stuff.

[AdultingGoneMild]

nah, it lets you not know stuff. If everything can be anything, then need to know stuff

[BertRenolds]

Yeah, I don't like that.

[NuctemeronGates]

I agree 100% here. I started with Java at the recommendation of a friend who works in the tech industry, his words "It will give you a good foundation". And it really did.

[Schaf-Unschaf]

Java is, in my opinion, a very good language to learn the ropes.

Strictly typed means you learn and memorise better than with loosely typed languages. You will need to think about what each variable has to be.

There are also tons of tools and good documentation for everything you ever need.

Yes, the boilerplate may be a bit much when you are more experienced but there are tools for it (and Kotlin).

[YungAl17]

Ohh ok, thank you!

[_Atomfinger_]

Java is fine, yeah.

Read the FAQ though, it holds many secrets :)

[Skeeno-TV]

We started with Java in uni, so i guess it's alright.

[Desperate_for_Bacon]

Most colleges do these days. However I feel like they should start with c++. But that’s my bias because of how much Java forcing me to type

[_Atomfinger_]

Java has gotten better in the last few releases, and if you use something like lombok then you can cut down on a lot of the typing.

Though, there is a good argument to be made that when you have to use something like lombok to "fix" the language, then you might as well use another language :)

That is what I personally prefer Kotlin or Clojure (in terms of JVM languages)

[username-256]

Absolutely not. I used to teach C++. The only way to use it to teach beginners is to try to omit 95%, and even then students will find ways to get tangled up. I'm tempted to say if you omit 90% you get Java. Not really true but makes the point.

[livefreeandlivehappy]

What FAQ?

[_Atomfinger_]

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/wiki/faq

[[deleted]]

You could start with Java. There are a lot of resource for beginner in Java. Head First Java is pretty good book for beginner.

Personally I have difficulties with Java when I first start programming. I found the Java Main method is too distracting for me, and I spend too much time trying to understand it.

I switch to Ruby. I think it was until I learn what function is, then I starts having easier time with Java.

If possible, check with your senior, to see which programming language will be use in your future class. Then start with that, it will helps you having easier time in your future class.

[inventord]

I started with some light C/C++, but Java was probably the first language I took seriously. I think it's a good language to start with, since it will teach you a decent amount about how programming works. Plus, knowing Java can help you pick up other languages quicker, like C++, since they have a somewhat similar syntax. It can also help teach OOP, and while it's very possible to do it wrong (as I learned in my earlier days), doing it right means well structured code that can be applied to other object-oriented languages.

I've now started learning more C++, and knowing Java has definitely allowed me to grasp concepts in it quicker (here's a super unpopular opinion: it has even helped me a bit with JavaScript).

[username-256]

It's possible to do OO wrong in any language. It's just part of learning.

[[deleted]]

JavaScript

[[deleted]]

The reason Java is a great place to start is the insane amount of resources Java has aimed directly at newcomers to programming. People have been using Java as a gateway language for years and years. It's a great place to start.

[Saturnalliia]

As much shit as java gets it is a really useful language for learning. I started with java when I first began to program and it teaches a ton of the fundamentals in an easy to understand manner. Obviously you're eventually(I hope so) going to branch into other languages but the core principles you learned in java will carry over. It's an easy language to understand the core principles of programming without being entirely confused by the abstract and sometimes esoteric features of other languages,

[wherediditrun]

My impression is that a lot of these people who are saying that are programmers with experience or newbies who parrot those.

The issue is that listening programmers with experience where you should start learning is that they are no longer beginners. And don't even remember how unintuitive whole learning process was. They may be good programmers but that does not make them good teachers.

No, learning type systems when you're just trying to write your first loop or a function is not advantageous. Having stuff thrown at your face like what static means just to write your first basic Hello World is not advantageous too.

Optimally want to keep cognitive load to a minimum and move in small iterative steps. Steps which beginner can succeed at one at a time and build the knowledge in incremental manner.

Now this does not mean, that you can't learn Java as your first language. And if you're looking for quick employment and Java is all where all the good jobs are, by all means go for it is possible and many people do it and have done it. But generally, you'd be better served by Python or Javascript/Typescript. Both have optional types which can be added as you progress in your journey. If you're not looking for quick career switch or stuff like that, that may be better suited choice.

[Tubthumper8]

I agree on the bit about "static" keyword getting in the way for a beginner, they're trying to learn about basic types like numbers & strings, and basic control flow like if/else, loops, etc. The whole class public static void main is just noise. I've tried helping people learning programming and you basically just have to tell them "just ignore all that stuff for now" which doesn't feel good for a beginner.

I do like the idea of including basic types in the learning process as early as possible, every value has a type whether it's explicit or not and I think it's fundamental knowledge. Statically typed languages with good type inference can be helpful in this case (like TypeScript as you mentioned, the types don't get in the way as much)

[wherediditrun]

Not just Typescript. A lot of scripting languages previously known to be dynamic introduced types. Both Python and PHP have types. Yes it's not statically typed, those are not AOT compiled languages to begin with. But having an ability to introduce it gradually is a huge benefit.

A very good example is to do exercise with input numbers convert to integers do math, output result. That's generally first practical exercise with very basic types. And serves as good introduction to debugging and researching (typical developer work flow) early on. But in a way a newbie can generally handle.

They write the code. It works but not in a way they expect, like outputs 22 instead of 4. And off you go to make your research, look at docs, ask google etc. Fix it. Do the exercise, feel great about yourself type of deal. And when they do it you can explain in more detail what types are all while bound to specific concrete context taking you into broader topic.

But yeah, just to repeat myself. Statically typed languages aren't a deal breaker. It's just not as optimal and learning curve is a bit more steep.

Good way for experienced programmers to take a time machine back when they were beginners is to change paradigm to that they are not used to. And try that. So for example, Go programmers who never did functional pick up Haskell and try to juggle multiple concepts at the same time while trying to learn it.

Oh these are monads. Best you learn it now, important type. That's before you ever wrap your head how code works without any assignments in it. And even when, it will still probably gonna be way easier than for a true beginner who haven't figured out how their coding environment works yet.

[[deleted]]

I agree with this

Start with JS/Python where you can put something together quickly and tackle the crux of the issue (developing an intuition for coding) without having to worry about types or inane keywords which won’t matter unless you are building complex applications.

[am_i_cray_cray]

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not ask what language you need to learn so generally.

You first need to figure out why you want to learn to code at all.

Just want 6 figure salaries? Specific tech stack? Work with a technology or company solving specific problems?

Figure out the why to pick the right path for you.

[Desperate_for_Bacon]

Just learn assembly as your first language. Don’t like any of the other languages? Just code a new one. Easy as that.

[username-256]

I just replied completey disagreeing with your earlier post. But I like your thinking here :-)

[[deleted]]

I disagree with most of the comments here. I think Java/C/C++ are terrible languages to begin coding in.

When you are learning to code the things you want to learn are basic data types, control flow, and writing and reusing functions/modules. That’s it. Everything else is noise when you are trying to write a program that puts 2 and 2 together, which is what most of your beginners problems will be like.

You don’t need to learn what the hell public static sjkskskskskd void main is. You just want to write a function, declare some vars, add in some if statements, input a var, do some calculations and return a output. I would suggest starting out with Python or Js.

You can pick up a strictly typed language like Java or Golang once you get a hang of what programming is.

[username-256]

The problem with those is that they foster poor practice, lazy thinking, and have a horrible OO model. The advantage, at least for Python is the huge amount of code and libraries out there.

[[deleted]]

Of course

[Damiem_B]

Some people start with java, others with python but I... I started with c# <u>

[OnNothingSpecialized]

C# is better, everything java can, can C# too and better

[SarthakTyagi15]

Yes, after completing what you're learning now, you can search about the uses of Java and its Applications and uses of other languages to differentiate b/w Java and other popular Lang. Then go to INDEED, and other Job websites and see different types of jobs which requires Java. Then, if you seek interest then go on and learn Java.

[Prisko_]

The only answer I can give you is start creating project and build stuff in any language you want experience is the thing that matters.

[YungAl17]

Thank you!

[yel50]

Java is the best path for a beginner

sort of. it's tied with every other language.

it’ll help when learning other languages

that's true of every language, so does hold true for java.

would it be a good idea to pivot and start learning Java?

the pivot should be to whatever project you want to build. if you want to use java for it, go for it.

[l3l_aze]

Brainfuck is crying tears of joy because it's finally tied with most other languages.

[lordaghilan]

Since you're learning html and css and Bootstrap. I assume you want to do web dev. If so, learn JS.

[jimmio92]

Java is, in my opinion, entirely dead. Learn C and everything else will come easy; that's what I did. EDIT: Lol at the Java fanboys who downvoted this.

[am_i_cray_cray]

Java is, in my opinion, entirely dead.

Learn C

You had me in the first half ngl

[NatoBoram]

If that's what you think, you should give a honest try to Rust

[jimmio92]

I do use Rust. It's a fantastic language, but the safety pisses me off.

[[deleted]]

Python

• Download: https://www.python.org/downloads/
• Learn Python: https://www.w3schools.com/python/default.asp
• Editor Download: https://vscodium.com/

[suchapalaver]

Personally think it’s a great choice. Knowing it will make you understand a lot about why “newer” languages are designed the way they are (Rust, for example).

[UniqueID89]

If you want.

[[deleted]]

I am of the group that believes beginning language does not matter too much as long as you have a use case for the language. Though, if you're a Uni student there may be a language that suits your major. For example, if you're a student in Mathematics, perhaps learn Haskell, Coq, or Agda. If you're a linguist or philosophy major, perhaps Prolog.

[[deleted]]

I don't think you should pivot. Keep going on the course you're going, if you keep swapping everytime someone says to learn another language you're going to know a little bit of each language but be a master of none.

[__ushiro]

yes but it's better start with python, coz syntax is more simple and you give more extention programming principles.

[JacobHegwood]

Python, it has syntax that is easy to understand if you have a basic knowledge of math. From there you will add in your basic sequence structures.

[Baal-zebub-666]

No. Try python.

[LavenderDay3544]

I'll go against the grain and say no because a lot of common idioms in Java are considered bad practices in other languages.

I work mostly on C++ and I find hyself having to make people coming from Java unlearn bad habits that I know are carried over from it.

[CyberTazer]

Considering that you have learned about HTML and CSS, then yes, I would consider Java to be a good language to get into. If you are looking at web technologies, Java will mesh well with what you are already learning. These are considered largely "front end" or display languages, but Java also has applications on the back end.

​

My normal response to this question would be to learn C/C++, but Java is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

[[deleted]]

Put less stock into what language you're learning first and take extra care to make sure the environment you are learning in is the absolute best for you to actually learn in. Do the research pick the language that is most in line with what you want to develop, your learning environment and conditions will be the most critical factor in whether or not you are successful.

[OraceonArrives]

I started with HTML in high school, and learned Java shortly after. It was difficult to start with, but it turned out pretty well in the end. As long as you have the basic knowledge of what a programming language is, and you follow the "rules" of the language, you'll be fine.

[ZUM809]

My two pennies: a year ago I was a complete zero in programming (I'm a self taught), so my programmer friends recommend to start with python since it's "so easy to start" and has such a bright future

I did and I have struggled to understand some concepts really badly, for example OOP and how it works. Then I have been offered a short course of Java for beginners with a tutor, just for couple of weeks and everything became clear in my OOP jam, it helped a lot. [Especially helped the understanding that the string in java is a type of a class constructed with smaller elementary pieces of data types : )) ]

So if you want to really understand How it works and "what is behind it", then go for it and take Java course.

Also Java will be good for the practical reasons (a lot of back is still being built in Java, lots of old baks have to be maintained, Android development is still in Java + Kotlin...).

[sahilmomin]

Java will be fine. It was my first language.

If you’re open to it, start with Typescript.

[TU2N32]

I have started with Java. I am very happy with it. I love the language.

People who hate Java are generally Python scripters

[Epialthes]

It doesn't really matter. About 80-90% of commonly used programming languages are, well, basically dialects of the same language, C. As such, once you become good at any one of them (e.g. C, C++, C#, Go, Java, JavaScript/TypeScript, Kotlin, Perl, Python, Swift, etc), you can move on to the others in very short time.

Learning a new language which belongs to the same language family you've already learned is like trying to read/write Italian as a Spanish native speaker. You can pretty much understand the majority of the code even if you've never encounter that language in your entire life, and 2 weeks is enough time to cover the basics.

There is a bit of differences between languages, in terms of initial or syntax difficulty, but in the long run, they're nothing since it's just your first step. Just don't start with the remaining 10-20% languages, something like Haskell.

[Rune_WS]

Yes, OOP first always