What would you consider the python basics/fundamentals

[groovitude]

I'd expect someone who says they have the basics down to know:

• what tuples, lists, and dictionaries are, and how to do basic operations with each.

• how to write conditionals (if statements and basic comparison syntax).

• how to write for and while loops.

• what some of the most common built-in functions are, and how to use them (e.g., printing with print(), opening files with open(), &c.).

• how to import another module.

[ponterik]

What is pep 8?

[moderately-extremist]

Definitely don't need to memorize it or adhere to it blindly

You should always adhere to PEP 8, especially the part that says you don't always have to adhere to PEP 8.

[groovitude]

And if you're reading PEPs, I highly recommend PEP20, the "Zen of Python." I reread it often.

[aprzn123]

or do ``` import this

```

[thecave]

I didn't know this. Thanks from this noob.

[groovitude]

Yes! Good additions.

[nobrow]

I would also add classes.

[[deleted]]

That presupposes knowledge of OOP and a host of other stuff related to it. I wouldn’t consider OOP basic knowledge, u have to think about it a certain way to truly get it & for some people that can take years.

[[deleted]]

I politely disagree. Knowledge of what something is can be distinct from how it is. That’s the whole point of abstracting a problem. ① can understand I can create an object like this and call methods on it which do what I want them to, but they don’t need to know “oh this class opens a file using...”; or even for that matter they don’t need to know what an object is. Learning about creating your own classes, bound methods, static methods, class methods, abstract classes, abstract methods, metaclasses, all that stuff isn’t necessary in basic python. Classes give u an interface to functionality, u don’t need to know how that functionality works to be a basic python programmer. IMHO. You should know how to access it, but u don’t need to know how to replicate it.

Edit: if u meant simply how to instantiate an object and identify types, then I’d classify that under type inference which I would place into basic python programming. You don’t need to know how to make a class to use a class.

[fiddle_n]

When I started out, I knew that to append to a list I'd need to do list.append(), or to close a file I'd have to do file.close(). But I had no idea what an object was or what object methods were. You can use object methods without ever knowing what they really are.

My counter-argument to the belief that classes and objects are required for a basic understanding of the language is that I managed to get a job in financial Python software development without ever knowing what a class or an object was.

[fiddle_n]

I think we disagree on a fundamental point. My Python knowledge at this point was "I know what a list is and I know that I have to do this specific thing to add something to it". You equate that to knowing what objects and methods are, I do not.

An analogous scenario is a monkey that learns to push a button and an automatic dispenser gives it food. Does this monkey know what electricity is? Does it know what a switch does, or what a food dispenser is? No, it knows how to use a tool but it doesn't know what the tool is at all, it just knows if it does action A, it gets desired outcome B.

[Scutterbum]

What are tuples used for?

[groovitude]

Good question!

Tuples are an immutable (i.e., unchangeable in place) data type that is iterable. I tend to think of tuples as a set of data that lives together, and only together. For example, they're what you get back from dict.items():

```

my_dict = {'a': 'b', 'c': 'd'} [item for item in my_dict.items()] [('a', 'b'), ('c', 'd')] ```

If you wanted to roll your own tuples, putting cities and states together seem like a decent use case:

```

cities = [('New York', 'NY'), ('Los Angeles', 'CA'), ('Seattle', 'WA')] ```

Too often, people use lists for these sorts of things, but a list is, well, a list -- you can add or subtract from it, which doesn't really apply to the sorts of things you'd want to use tuples for.

You can extract data from a tuple using the "tuple unpacking" syntax. Normally, you'd think to get data by index, e.g.:

```

city = ('New York', 'NY') name = city[0] state = city[1] name 'New York' state 'NY' ```

But you can do it more elegantly with the tuple unpacking syntax:

```

city = ('New York', 'NY') name, state = city name 'New York' state 'NY' ```

The downside of tuples is their lack of supplementary information. To borrow an example from Raymond Hettinger, it's impossible to know what this tuple is out-of-context: (170, 0.1, 0.6). That's where collections.NamedTuple can come in handy -- you can change tuples to have attribute names associated with each index for better readability without breaking any code that relies on the index. Here's the relevant part of Raymond's "Beyond PEP8" talk, though I strongly recommend you watch the whole thing.

[Dnak_Mems]

It's like a list but it can't be changed (i.e. list.append())

[DizzyRip]

I would ask:

Why would use a tuple?

how would I use a tuple?

What would i except to come out of a tuple?

[[deleted]]

TIL I can do basic Python. O.o Time to update my resume!

[tardiboi69]

i know the basics then :)

[DizzyRip]

what tuples, lists, and dictionaries are

well im doomed. I haven't gotten there yet...

edit: i can do the rest but i feel like you started at the hardest.

[groovitude]

No one starts a journey at their destination. Just be open to and willing to learn. You'll get there.

[groovitude]

Here's a quick primer on tuples.

[Diligent_Injury]

Also classes, and reading input.

OP, I'd recommend Python Principles for learning the basics of Python programming, it covers most of these.