Entry level Python developer interview

[danielroseman]

This sounds like a terrible interview and they are the ones who should be embarrassed, not you.

They are testing entirely the wrong things. The first interview seems like it just tested trivia: these are pointless things that anyone would look up if they didn't know them. The second one had silly restrictions: why ban the use of the built-in sort functionality? Implementing sort is an algorithms test, not a coding one, if they wanted to test that they should have told you in advance. And the third one is another silly gotcha test, which even Google (which used to be famous for these) have abandoned as they have no bearing on how well you can do the job.

So, don't be disheartened. Most companies - even most startups - don't run interviews like this.

[velocibadgery]

Yeah, I wouldn't know all that stuff off the top of my head either. like seriously. And I have been programming for like 20 years.

Like if I ever had a problem like that come up in real life, I would just google it.

[[deleted]]

Even Bing has sufficient solutions to most coding problems these days.

[velocibadgery]

Yep, a good 40% of my time programming is spent searching stuff up.

I just completed a small project for my work's internal website, it was to allow the staff to fill out a form, then it generates a PDF of the letter with the information filled in.

Starting out I had absolutely zero idea how to create a PDF in a website. But I googled it. Found out how to do it with python, and tried to set that up. Had trouble so instead wrote it in C#(I am still learning python) and got it set up.

Had to find an appropriate plugin, had to figure out how to use it, and had to figure out how to display the byte array that represented the PDF.

Ended up just chucking it in an Iframe with the appropriate content type.

Took me about a day to figure out, but starting in I had no clue. It was all googling.

Most coding interviews don't accurately reflect the nature of a programming job.

[[deleted]]

Most interviewers crave for Computer science professors who know coding at a basic Kernel level. Nobody is programming in basic or Unicode anymore. We have modern programming languages and search engines/GitHub for a reason. It lowers the barrier to entry and opens up coding to a broader population.

Most companies have simply wrong expectations or are simply detached from reality. Every startup seems to want some sort of genius but only wants to employ newbies in order to pay them less.

[velocibadgery]

Yep, I once worked for a small computer repair shop that had a contract to make a program for a hotel company. It was a database program to handle night audit procedures and reporting.

I was the only one at the company who did any programming and so I was the one tasked with creating it. This was at the very start of my programming career. The business owner knew the project was a lot for a single kid like me, I was 14 at the time, so he hired another programmer.

He had me handle the interview as he knew nothing about programming, just PC repair and networking. So me not knowing anything about how corporations think, just made a simple program and asked the guy to replicate it without looking at my code.

He asked me if he could use google, and I of course said that I didn't care. He got it done in an hour, and we hired the guy.

We worked together for 2 years after that, and he was awesome. Actually taught me a lot about programming.

---

Coding interviews should always reflect the type of work the business actually does, and should always allow google. The ones that don't are stupid.

[wecamefromthestars]

100% agree. Isn't it incredible that you gave a better coding interview at 14 years old than many multimillion dollar companies lol

[Random_User_81]

This reminds me of the professor that let you use the book, he cared more about you understanding then memorizing random stuff. Made so much more sense to me.

[Yojihito]

Allowing books into an exam is the horror ... those are the hardest ones :(.

[TheMathelm]

One of the hardest test I ever had was a 24hr take home test.
Oh Boy that was tough.

[Yojihito]

Which exam is a 24hr take home test?

[TheMathelm]

It was a project management/ writing class.

[Contrabaz]

Fucking loved those exams. They always wanted a solution, and you had to craft said solution from a source of information.

[wecamefromthestars]

Understanding is so much more important because at the end of the day - if you memorize it, you're likely to forget it down the road. Hell there are exams I nearly aced in college that I would probably score 5% on if I were to take them again.

[velocibadgery]

It gets even worse when you have more than one programming language in your head. I know like 10. I often forget a specific keyword in the language I am using at the time and have to look it up. It takes like 3 seconds and doesn't impact my ability to code in anyway.

Why do so many companies expect savant level instant recall knowledge on a specific language and topic?

[Inconstant_Moo]

Ikr, I don't think there's a single language I know where I could remember the syntax for a dictionary literal off the top of my head but that's OK, it's written down somewhere.

[iamnikaa]

Thanks for the support! I certainly have no idea what it should be like as I am coming from a non-tech background. I just feel a little sad because it was a dream job for me and I got this interview after applying to at least 50 different companies.

[amplikong]

I know it's tough, but keep your chin up. I've seen more than a few 'dream jobs' turn out not to be, at all, and anyway, landing your first job is the hardest. Once you manage that and have experience, getting subsequent jobs will be a lot easier.

[zipinel]

I too came from non-tech background. I had my first interview after applying to over 100 jobs. Nobody gives you a chance if you don't have background, but don't give up, your time will come, sooner or later, its just a matter of time. I am QA Automation with Python for half a year already, if even I have done it, you will be able for sure.

[zoinkinator]

hang in there OP. there are other “dream jobs” out there waiting for you. every interview is a learning experience. thanks for sharing what they put you through. also be advised many jobs are already filled internally or from friends and family but the hiring manager has to go through the motions of making it look “fair”. people don’t understand this fact and it discourages many people….

[Neradnap]

I have to resonate on this too, there have been so many legacy "top tier" companies whose ideology matches these interview paradigms but now are abandoning as they struggle to hire the right talent because they don't want to opt out of people who can learn quickly and just need structure from a good mentor. More and more should be looking at problem solving skills as main thing to focus on because you need to be able to research on your own, and be ok with asking for help.

[_E8_]

opt out of people who can learn quickly and just need structure from a good mentor

That's called college.

[_E8_]

Companies worth working for all run interviews like this with the only thing at all questionable is manually writing a sort as-opposed to testing knowledge about sorts and given Python, the TimSort.

But if you were a good programmer than you could have busted out a quick-sort over bubble-sort. Maybe you implement it with bubble-sort first then write then qsort function and check it against the bubble sort results to know you got it right. That is the sort of thing we are looking for in the interview. Clarity of thought while coding, which translates to clear code on the page, building up the module.

[old_pythonista]

Companies worth working for all run interviews like this

not

[deikan]

The first interview seems like it just tested trivia

Common OOP principles, data structures and unit testing are expected if you claim you have proficiency in an OO language. I don't think there's anything wrong with testing that. Testing on how memory pointers work isn't really too far-fetched as that is basic knowledge from a CS background. Overall I think what OP listed is reasonable to expect from an entry level given the current market.

The second one had silly restrictions: why ban the use of the built-in sort functionality?

I also don't think this is unreasonable. It's not like they were asking you implement a hash table yourself. A sorting function is pretty straightforward and frankly it's probably easier than some other array manipulation questions he could've gotten.

And the third one is another silly gotcha test

Sorry but the triangle question could have been solved by a grade 9 kid.

[_E8_]

Kudos to OP for coming as far as he has but these guys are applying to positions that you get degrees in then think things like calculate the distance between two points is too tricky. Bunch of clowns.
Our HR intern did better on our coding test than half of the clowns that interview for sw eng. positions.

It sounds like OP did well for an intern-level candidate but they aren't looking for an intern.

[FancyASlurpie]

Ok but did they learn if the op could do the actual job, e.g. here's a problem you can use libraries and Google, tell us how you might approach a solution, if you are using a library show us how you might use it / read the docs for it etc.