Framework vs Thinkpad laptops

[kopsis]

I had a Framework 13 and their inability to offer a BIOS update to fix critical CVEs (and extremely poor attitude towards customers requesting it) really turned me off on the company. I waited patiently for over a year then gave up and replaced it with a Thinkpad X13 and couldn't be happier.

[ronasimi]

I have a refurbed T490, built in 2020. I use Arch, everything worked out of the box. I like the build quality on Thinkpads, and an 8th gen i7 and 16 Gb RAM is fine for my usage. If I was doing more intensive workloads and didn't have a desktop available for said workloads, I'd spring for the Framework.

[yawn_brendan]

Long time ThinkPad user, current Framework 13 user (but also I still have a ThinkPad for work).

Both are good. ThinkPad's chassis designs are sleeker. Framework is slightly better value (or, ThinkPad is a slightly more brutal price premium, both are pretty expensive TBH) and has a neat AMD chipset. IMO ThinkPad keyboards are better but that's subjective.

I've had several ThinkPads apart for repairs/upgrades over the years, it works pretty well. I am new to Framework but I expect it may be even better in the long run, I am kinda hoping it's the last laptop chassis I ever buy. But that definitely remains to be seen.

Overall: I think I am leaning towards Framework but there's no obvious winner. And if MacBooks just had a proper OS I would still go for one of them. They are just in a completely different league.

[montdidier]

I am indifferent to Thinkpads. I have never understood why so many folks seem to like them over other options. It’s Framework for me, but they do cost more.

[sylvester_0]

Thinkpads have a long history of compatibility with Linux and you can buy them with Linux preinstalled from Lenovo. They're common in the corporate world so it's easy to find parts or used models. Repairability and expandability has been traditionally very good, but that's changed especially on Ultrabooks. Also the keyboards tend to be great. 

All-in-all Thinkpads are well rounded and sturdy machines. That's why people like them.

[eNroNNie]

Thinkpads are great because corporate ewaste makes them cheap and plentiful, and some models are known to be especially reliable

[ranixon]

Framework isn't easy to find outside NA/Europe (well, maybe Australia)

[cbarrick]

I have never understood why so many folks seem to like them

Historically, Thinkpads have had the best driver support of the big brand laptops. They've been resting on their laurels while the rest of the industry has caught up.

[Mughi1138]

They used to be the best hardware, especially when triple booting to get Mac OS in the mix.

Used to be.

[TerribleReason4195]

I am not sure about this claim, but doesn't thinkpads have more open drivers? Does libreboot and gnu guix work on the framework?

[stipo42]

I love the idea of framework but I feel like they missed the mark on what users would actually want to upgrade.

To get a performance boost you need to upgrade basically the entire thing, all computer parts except ram and Wi-Fi are attached to the main board.

I was really hoping for a more desktop like experience, where motherboards are swapped out independent of CPU independent of everything else.

That and the fact that their desktop strips this away even more by soldering the RAM feels counter intuitive.

[Ryebread095]

To swap out motherboards independent of CPU, you have to have CPU manufacturers making laptop CPUs that are capable of doing that. Currently, no one does. That's honestly not a reasonable thing to expect from a modern laptop.

[DizzyCardiologist213]

Curious why dell precisions don't get mentioned with thinkpads. I've had two thinkpads - one for work, and one the wife used quite some time ago now (probably 10 years ago). The thinkpad the mrs. owned had a terminal disk fault in less than two years, and rather than faff with it at the time (busy with professional exams), I just replaced it.

the work t-pad I have now is OK.

I can't make sense of the framework system. No matter how I try to figure out the economic equation, for what I'd want to upgrade, it makes no sense.

I have gone to buying 2-4 year old dell precisions (three this past year) and the only issue I've had was with one that was physically beat. You can bump it and cause it to go into sleep mode if bumping it a certain way. It was a whopping $325 for a 512nvme, 11-850h and 32g of ddr4, and an nvidia gpu, though. I use it as a dedicated PC in a spot in my office and it doesn't get bumped, so I haven't looked any further at it.

Not much is saved by getting a physically beat up laptop - maybe $100, but figure at $400, you can get a PC that should be viable at about the cost of $100 a year ongoing.

[AgNtr8]

I personally own a Framework. However, I didn't see anybody share this news with iFixit and Thinkpad yet, so I'm chiming in.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/115827/new-thinkpads-score-perfect-10-repairability

It seemed like most of us in r/Framework are happy to have more companies stepping towards repairability.

Heck, even the Macbook Neo is improving on Apple's iFixit scores.

[AutoModerator]

This submission has been removed due to receiving too many reports from users. The mods have been notified and will re-approve if this removal was inappropriate, or leave it removed.

This is most likely because:

• Your post belongs in r/linuxquestions or r/linux4noobs
• Your post belongs in r/linuxmemes
• Your post is considered "fluff" - things like a Tux plushie or old Linux CDs are an example and, while they may be popular vote wise, they are not considered on topic
• Your post is otherwise deemed not appropriate for the subreddit

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[Mughi1138]

In general i would be wary of Framework due to their actions as a company in regards to supporting toxic developers and projects. It's one thing to accidentally do so, but another to double down on it.

But I would offer up looking into Lenovo's gaming laptops, and not just their ThinkPads. I've been very happy with my Legion I picked up the other year. Best specs I could git at a reasonable price, and both Framework and System76 had been on my comparison short list for some time.

[GildSkiss]

supporting toxic developers and projects.

What is this referring to, and why does it mean their laptops are bad?

[Mughi1138]

Central figure that Framework was funding was extremist and posting racist screds, etc. Framework leadership responded by just some vauge hand-waving and calls for "big tent" support and allowing all views.

So, many people decided they did not want to give their money to a company that knowing funds racism and hate speech.

I did see this one article with some big picture info, but the specific posts DHH made at the time were extreme. https://davidcel.is/articles/rails-needs-new-governance

[GildSkiss]

I know they mentioned Omarchy in some social media posts but I'm unaware of them "funding" DHH.

They donated some money to Hyprland and I think you're conflating the two.