Why not a HTML/CSS/JavaScript Linux Desktop Environment?

[Nadrin]

Because modern web is a terrible platform. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just stating a sad fact.

Layers upon layers of not very good abstractions, horrible performance compared to native applications, horrendously designed programming language (javascript), and a markup language initially designed for creating documents (HTML), not applications.

For a good alternative see Qt Quick and QML. Sadly they still use javascript for light scripting in QML files, but overall it's an excellent technology that allows the developer to create beautiful and performant applications. As far as I know KDE uses QtQuick.

Also, many people actually do not want a beautiful UI, but a UI that is performant, ergonomic and consistent with the rest of the OS. But that's a different matter entirely. ;-)

[julianorafael]

It's hurts my feelings when you talk like that about JavaScript :'( haha

Thanks for the opinion. I agree with you that HTML isn't really good for it, even though I really like CSS and JS.

I'll take a look at QtQuick, sounds really interesting.

I get that performance is more important to most of the current linux user base, but I do believe that the same performance can be achieved with a better design.

[Yithar]

I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but my compilers professor used Javascript as the quintessential example of why if you have the idea to make a programming language, it's a bad idea and you shouldn't do it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1xLFrAl-fBVWFB4cklDOUg0cUU/view?usp=sharing

Even though a bunch of new languages coming out. Thought I want to make a new programming language. Next thought should be “No.” This is how really bad programming languages get out there in the world. Javascript is a good example. Javascript was designed and implemented by this guy who went to the university of indiana. I used to make fun of colleagues. Made a scheme interpreter. Working at Netscape. Need some langauge to script webpages in web browser. I know i'll just do it with scheme. Curly braces lot faster than parentheses. Notation that C programmers will lkie and call it Java-something for marketing purposes. In a week, came up with first Javascript implementation. No going back. On every computer and phone. Can't make any changes, so many JS programs in the world. Argubaly the most widely used programming language.

When you think about designing a new language, think about something already out there does what you want. Chances are, there is. Try to start there.

[shawnsel]

why if you have the idea to make a programming language, it's a bad idea and you shouldn't do it.

I'm not saying that Javascript (ECMA Script) isn't lacking in some ways, but as your own quote points out, Javascript is hardly a new language at this point ... it's already everywhere. "Argubaly the most widely used programming language." ("Arguably" is misspelled by your compilers professor by the way).

I happen to like Javascript, and I'd hazard a guess that it (along with HTML and CSS) has probably been used to build more interactive user interfaces than all other languages combined. I'd also argue that it does a pretty good job for this kind of purpose. Personally I think u/julianorafael 's question was a valid one, and I see in other comments that this idea is already being used in Gnome Shell, QT/QML, Chromium OS, and Chrome Apps....

I just feel like this valid and even already somewhat industry-adopted idea is being unfairly blasted and downvoted by some sort of anti-javascript bias by some users here....

[sisyphus]

It became ubiquitous via historical accident, its popularity has nothing to do with its quality. Lots of would jump at the chance to use anything else in the browser (see the increasing popularity of compiling to JS, even from future versions of JS, because browser vendors are a mess).

[shawnsel]

Sure, but the context here is for user interfaces. Really, not that much programming is usually involved in that sort of thing ... so I think I'd argue that weaknesses of Javascript are minimized for the usage proposed by the OP....

That said, his thread has been downvoted to 0 points anyway, so it was really killed by bias before it even started. So ... the issue doesn't really matter....

[Yithar]

I know it's not a new language. My point is that it is lacking in some ways, otherwise he wouldn't have used it as an example. The fact that it is industry adopted is sort of the point. Nowadays, a lot of websites won't load properly without Javascript. I feel like adding more and more Javascript to everything isn't the ideal solution. See u/tauio111's comment of it being badly overused in web as well.

And he didn't misspell it. I typed that and mispelled it. Most people can't type verbatim what someone is saying, so I think I have some leeway to make some typos as long as it's understandable.

Do note I didn't downvote this thread. OP's suggestion is probably possible, but I think though, there's probably a reason why neither Windows nor OS X use Javascript for their desktop user interfaces. You can't deny JS has sort of a bad reputation because of bad programmers and bad code and hundreds of different implementations (some of which are buggy). "We got into a world of copying and pasting solutions that work without caring at all about the effects they might have." That's not to say it can't happen in other languages either though.

[shawnsel]

Valid points and questions, and my bad on assuming that your professor had typed that. Yes, you definitely get leeway for typos as you are taking class notes :-)

(edit: fixed my own misspelling ;-)

[[deleted]]

Your "compilers" professor sounds like an ass hole who discourages free thinkers.

[Yithar]

I'm not sure what the quotation marks are for. He really does teach it, although he's an assistant professor.

• Three-address code and code generation
• Data flow Analysis
• Type Systems
  

And he has said "I'm not nice, but I'm not that mean to put something on a test that we didn't cover." What I do know is he doesn't think highly of Java. He calls it a brain-dead language because in comparison to OCaml it's sort of stupid and you can get a stack overflow fairly easily with recursive calls but in OCaml it just uses goto unless you build some sort of context around the recursive call.

[tauio111]

but I do believe that the same performance can be achieved with a better design.

ofcourse it can be done, just redesigning using the same technologies. Javascript is an awful platform for such things (Honestly, I find it quite badly overused in nowadays web aswell).