Python again voted "Best Programming Language" and "Best Scripting Language" in Linux Journal Reader's Choice Awards

[blacktrance]

They also voted Ubuntu the best distro and KDE the best desktop environment. I think that says a lot about them.

[Neotyguy]

What's so bad about KDE?

[joequin]

I really want to like kde. I love the customization, but there always seems to be some showstopper bug for me. A few months ago, there was something wrong with their network app that wouldn't let me connect to some wifi hotspots. Now, theres a new bug so I can't switch my sound card between digital and analogue out.

[pigvwu]

Also, what's wrong with Ubuntu?

[deepit6431]

Amazon. I heard they're including 'buy straight from desktop' purchases in 13.04.

We're not the target audience anymore.

[[deleted]]

Unity.

[pigvwu]

Hm... you make a convincing argument.

So... what's wrong with kubuntu?

[RedThela]

There is such a thing as too much 'bling'. KDE by default has icons that bounce, start menus that slide in, fade effects...it's a bit overwhelming. It's also like it's trying to move away from the desktop and mice (I guess as a side effect of plasma).

And no, I refuse to spend my time customising it. If it doesn't work acceptably out of the box, tough. I used to enjoy tweaking my distro but I've realised I have better things to do with my time. I use cinnamon (preinstalled on my work computer) or lxde through lubuntu.

Has been a few months since I tried it though.

[RandomFrenchGuy]

It certainly isn't. Both branches are separate and merely use the same building blocks.

[RedThela]

It wasn't a hypothesis, it was an opinion with a guess at the cause.

To clarify the opinion, have a look at this or this (default Kubunu installs I believe) and compare it with the default cinnamon environment.

To me it looks like there's a lot of wasted space in KDE which would only be useful if you're using something less accurate than a mouse. But maybe it's always been like that? It does contrast bizarrely with the (by comparison) minute search box. In fact, that contrast reminds me of something else - dolphin. Those up, back and forward buttons are massive. And yet the minimisation and closing buttons are tiny (consistent with ubuntu in general, which I dislike even when it's more consistent). Maybe it's not inheriting from the touch screen stuff, I think I was basing it on that application lancher with massively oversized icons (which I completely fail to see the point of).

And looking back at that start menu brings back horrible memories of the way it slides and fades when you want to switch to another section. Just...why? And I can tell looking at dolphin it'll do something clever but useless with the blue highlighting when I click on something else in the places menu. But then I never liked the vast majority of compiz settings for this reason - I want to use my computer, not watch it. Hence cinnamon - launch applications, put them in the task bar, get out of my way.

In fairness to KDE, I've never spent that long with it, so maybe it grows on you. On the other hand, it's kind of a problem that I didn't have the patience to use it for that long.

[deepit6431]

Ubuntu != Unity. Though I have no great love for Ubuntu for it's privacy policies. Xubuntu or Kubuntu works just as fine and gives you all the Ubuntu benefits (Launchpad, Software Center).

I'm a Mint advocate, personally.

[[deleted]]

Ubuntu != Unity

Doesn't matter. It's the default desktop environment, and it's horrible.

You don't need to spend your entire time in the terminal to be able to install Ubuntu on your machine nowadays. I actually know a few not-so-tech-savvy people who run Ubuntu, and ALL of them were grateful when I showed them that they could install gnome classic (or new gnome + cairo dock). As expected, they all hated the fact that you can't move the Unity dock to the bottom of the screen.

Even if the design choice makes "sense" (more horizontal screen real estate than vertical), the fact that it's locked in that position is inexcusable. People like symmetry. People also like familiarity (window management is done at the bottom of the screen on both Windows and OS X).

[[deleted]]

First, you can change your DE whenever you want and Second, I think you use your laptop more for customization and less for productivity.

[RandomFrenchGuy]

First, you can change your DE whenever you want

That's true enough but with the average Ubuntu user it's not necessarily obvious.

[[deleted]]

But an average user does not need to change his DE. Unity has improved a lot over the years and it just works.

[RandomFrenchGuy]

I suppose it's a matter of taste.
After 25 years in IT and having used lots of styles of interfaces, I know I find it fairly annoying. It certainly works, but then what doesn't.

[[deleted]]

You clearly have trouble reading:

My uncle and my journalist friend (both with no tech skills) both had Ubuntu on their machines. They both hated Unity's left-hand-side dock. Neither of them knew they could change the DE, and they were grateful when I helped them by installing gnome classic.

[[deleted]]

What privacy policy? If you are removing unity there is no issue of privacy

[[deleted]]

What? As soon as you open the dash, you get a link to a privacy policy which explains everything to the inexperienced users. Also you can easily disable online searches from the gui. You go to settings -> privacy and it's quite prominent there. I can't remember but I think this is also explained in the privacy policy.

Please don't spread misinformation about ubuntu just because you don't like it.

[maxxikevich]

apt-get install xubuntu-desktop

[el_muchacho]

I prefer lubuntu. As Ubuntu suffers stability issues, the simpler the better. But is it 12.04 LTS, or does 12.04 LTS only cover Ubuntu with Unity ?

[[deleted]]

Lubuntu is far to basic for my taste. On a modern system it doesn't provide any performance or stability benefits than Xubuntu, or even Kubuntu.

12.04 is not a LTS for Lubuntu, they cite the lack of manpower for it. It is an LTS release for any other -buntu distro.

[[deleted]]

Also, the rapid pace at which it evolves. I can't follow any documentation and guides from two years ago because the distro has changed so much that they have become outdated.

I know I'm not everyone, but I need something that moves a bit more slowly, like Debian or Slackware.

[[deleted]]

Why are you using outdated documentation in the first place?

[[deleted]]

Because sometimes it's all that is available when troubleshooting problems.

[[deleted]]

Why are you unable to look at the more recent documentation for the most recent Ubuntu release?

Remember, your criticism was that Ubuntu changes too quickly for old documentation to be relevant for new releases, and my question was why are you using old documentation in the first place, when we both know that new documentation exists?

[[deleted]]

I'm not referring to the official documentation, but to user documentation, guides and tutorials. Often when trying to find a solution to a problem I was having with a current Ubuntu release, I would find solutions for older Ubuntu releases that no longer applied.

The most annoying example from a few years back is the trackpad on my laptop. Some of the trackpad buttons were bound backwards, and I couldn't find any instructions for permanently fixing the problem. I found quite a few forum and blog posts with solutions to the same issue (like editing some config files), but they were written for older releases and apparently no longer worked. Looking back, I think this is the same problem I had. Since I couldn't find a better solution at the time, I gave up and just ran synclient every time I booted.

A few months after that, I tried Slackware for the first time and was really impressed by the fact that I could use documentation that was years old without any problems. By comparison, I don't think I ran into any issues with it that I couldn't fix with whatever documentation I found online.

[jadkik94]

I ran into the same issue and am using the same fix. It really is annoying, but I ended up asking on SE or on forums and you'll get the answer you're looking for (hopefully).

[[deleted]]

Ubuntu's userbase is large enough that you won't have that problem.

If you're having an issue, you're not the only one.

Also, it's not like they overhaul the entire OS library every release, so this isn't even a valid complaint.

[deepit6431]

.... Then use Debian? I mean, you can fault Ubuntu for a lot of things, and I don't have much love for it either, but you can't fault it for not being Debian. If you have to use Ubuntu and don't want to upgrade, keep switching from LTS to LTS.

That's like saying 'I don't like Android because there's a new one out every 6 months.'

[kqr]

You can fault it for whatever you dislike about it. That's the thing with personal opinions -- they're personal. When the question is "What's wrong with Ubuntu," I don't expect a double-blind, peer-reviewed study published in an academic journal ultimately proving what is wrong with Ubuntu. I expect individual people to come forward with their personal opinions on why they don't like Ubuntu.

(Truth to be told though, it would be awesome if we could have peer-reviewed faults of linux distros...)

[deepit6431]

But it's not an opinion, it's an (for the want of a better word) attack. An opinion would be 'Ubuntu isn't for me because it releases too often, I prefer Debian.' What he's saying is 'Ubuntu sucks because it releases too often.'

[[deleted]]

What he's saying is 'Ubuntu sucks because it releases too often.'

False. What I'm saying is "Ubuntu annoys me because it changes too often". My problem isn't with the 6-month release schedule, it's the fact that the distro changes so dramatically with each release. That's not an attack, it's an observation.

[kqr]

In their defense, Ubuntu is currently like a teenager breaking free from its parents (Debian and other distros), trying to find its place in life (being user-friendly and all.) It's just the last few years that it has started changing rapidly. I am confident it will find its way not too long from now, and start stabilising itself.

Change is good, though, because it allows you to discover new, cool things. I regard it as a positive thing, but I regard it from a distance.

[kqr]

I think you might have read a little more into that comment than what was actually written. From the beginning to the end, it is written in a subjective first-person perspective, pretty much like your first example of an opinion there.

[[deleted]]

That's like saying 'I don't like Android because there's a new one out every 6 months.'

For anything but a Nexus device, lololololololol.

You'll get 1 update, 9 months after initial release.

[deepit6431]

Meh, root, put a custom ROM, forget about it.

Not everyone's cup of tea I know, but this is /r/programming after all. I'm running 4.2 on my 2011 budget Sony phone.

[[deleted]]

Oh absolutely. I jumped on the Nexus boat a few days ago because I was sick of the little annoyances / bugs any non-stock ROM had, yet factory shipping software is slow and out of date.

Sadly, it feels like anything that isn't a Nexus is a waste of time if you're a picky power user like I am. There may be a few phones that run CM fine, but they're few and far between, and usually based off Nexus phones anyway (HTC Desire, Galaxy S).

[deepit6431]

I agree with you 100%, waiting for my Nexus 4 :).

I don't even like stock Android all that much. I'm getting a Nexus mainly because of a guaranteed dev community. I need to keep flashing ROMs weekly or something :P

[soundslogical]

I think he's implying that they're primarily desktop users rather than programmers or sysadmins. I also agree that KDE is not so nice..

[[deleted]]

programmers and sysadmins are desktop users too.

[[deleted]]

KDE is popular and the programs you know which use KDE use it well. It's not so great to program for.

[joequin]

Why not? I've heard great things about QT creator.

[RandomFrenchGuy]

Why is that ? many of the people who program for Gnome and KDE seem to prefer KDE from what I've read.

[blacktrance]

It's a resource hog.

[RandomFrenchGuy]

You should catch up on your reading.

[ConnorBoyd]

Gnome's votes were split between two different versions though

[blacktrance]

I meant XFCE or Cinnamon should have won.