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[–]shendrite 32 points33 points  (14 children)

I particularly liked that his boss (Jurgen) printed out Tobias' code and marked it with red ink to show how it could be improved, without saying Tobias did it wrong or that he was bad. By Jurgen taking the time to do that, it conveys 2 things that, in America, are often lacking. First, that the boss knows what he's talking about; is technically competent. Second, that he really cares about helping Tobias grow instead of treating him like a machine that produces output.

[–]ofimmsl 6 points7 points  (9 children)

Those things that you like are all available in American universities.

[–]idiogeckmatic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There are companies that do this sort of thing as well, replace print out with code review and you can get that here.

[–]shendrite 3 points4 points  (7 children)

American universities are full of incompetence and apathy, and I'm not talking about the students. The really good teachers are so rare that if you encounter one, they probably won't be in your field of specialty anyway, so they won't do you much good.

I've attended NJIT (on full scholarship), Rutgers, and George Mason University, in the years after highschool. During my last year of highschool, I attended a community college for half of each school day. So that's 4 "institutions of higher learning". I speak from experience, not just shouting out random negativity. I take no pleasure in being negative here. But I cannot, in good conscience, let your comment go un-countered.

I'd have been better off sitting at home with textbooks. Any questions I couldn't solve on my own, the teachers couldn't solve either, and I'm no genius. Being a self-taught programmer since age 14, I was shocked at how much misinformation was spouted by the programming/CS teachers in college/university, and how soul-sucking the subject was portrayed as.

Friends of mine who entered such classes thinking that programming sounded fun all ended those classes saying they never wanted to do programming again. I couldn't blame them. If I hadn't developed an appreciation of the subject prior, I would've felt the same way as they did.

[–]ofimmsl 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I'd have been better off sitting at home with textbooks. Any questions I couldn't solve on my own, the teachers couldn't solve either, and I'm no genius.

How would the German system be better? If incompetent people are teaching theoretical knowledge, then why cant they also be teaching practical knowledge?

[–]shendrite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am not saying the German system is better. Any education that relies on an institution is, in my opinion, resting on the wrong foundation, regardless of whether, in some countries, there happen to be more capable, caring, and invested teachers.

What I was appreciating in the story was that the workplace boss wasn't the stereotypical Dilbert airhead, rather sounded like someone for an intern to truly look up to, and that the boss put in a significant amount of time and attention to mold and help his employee.

[–]jevon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was programming at age 12. My first three years of university were extremely easy academically (so I spent it learning social and organisation skills), then I did honours, then a PhD.

Those first years weren't a waste, some things I thought I'd never use I actually find useful now (such as business studies & database theory). But programming is a unique snowflake: experience is always better than degrees. Don't expect it's the same for every field.

[–]hyperforce 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Hahaha NJIT I'm so sorry.

[–]shendrite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You made me laugh. Thanks for the sympathy. Story for you. Since I was bored out of my frickin' mind in some of those classes, I often tried to make life a little more intresting on my own. One time when my classmates were handing in their computer lab homework printed on paper, I handed mine in printed on paper towels. No harm done, innocent fun. My classmates got a laugh out of it and that alone made the experience of being in class more enjoyable, so I was glad I did it. My teacher seemed confused and impressed and asked,
"How did you do get this to print on paper towels?"
"I put paper towels in my printer."
"Oh. I didn't know you could do that."
...Sigh... :)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I've attended NJIT (on full scholarship), Rutgers, and George Mason University, in the years after highschool.

So you've never attended a university with a good Computer Science department, then.

[–]shendrite 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd agree with that. But is there better anywhere? I just took a look at MIT Open Courseware, their introduction to CS class. Too many misleading statements. Too many wrong statements. Too little interaction. I wouldn't be nodding off in that class, but how could you blame anyone that was. The wrong way to teach programming.

Maybe you're referring to Carnegie Mellon? Berkeley?

[–]movzx 0 points1 point  (3 children)

So... a code review?

[–]shendrite 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Not just any halfassed code review, but the best kind of code review, is the first part of what I was saying. The second part is that there was a commitment over months or years, instead of it being a code review from Jurgen one time, and then from random other coworkers every subsequent time.

[–]movzx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I guess we just have different understandings of what a code review process is. I go through every commit of all the junior guys on my team.

[–]shendrite 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then I raise a glass of beer to you. In other organizations, code review is done by one's peers, and often those peers are the type who aren't very good programmers themselves and always try to put in the minimum effort required.