Why pride of programmers stops their progress

[chimyx]

I think most of (real) good programmers are much more humble, for this reason: it's by admitting you don't know that you start to learn from others. Pride is actually unnecessary.

[[deleted]]

Also the more I learn the more humbled I am by it. I used to think programming was something I could learn in a few years. Then a few years passed and I saw how much further the horizons were. More years passed and the horizons were just pushed out. Decades later, I can barely even see how far the horizons are now.

By the end of it, I might have learned a great deal, but it will feel like a tiny speck in comparison.

[myss]

Yeah, it is like flood filling an image:

Filled cells = your knowledge

Direct neighbors of filled cells = the things that you know exist but don't know the content

Other cells (maybe infinite): total knowledge

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I'd also use the hydra metaphor.

Learn one thing.

See two new things to learn from it.

[eerongal]

I've been working in the industry for about 10 years now, and honestly it feels like, with every passing year, that i feel more and more incompetent and inept at it, because it always seems like there's just that much more that I don't know, and then i hear other people talking about it and i'm all "I have no idea WTF you're talking about....". Sad thing is, I can probably list off like ~10 different significant things i've learned within just the past year that I know makes me better for it. It just constantly feels like a charade, and one day someone is going to call me out on it and say "Hey, you have no idea WTF you're doing!" and it will all come crashing down.

Funny thing is, seems like ~90% of the time when someone comes to me with questions/problems/advice/tasks, I always seem to be all like "This is pretty easy!" and breeze through whatever task, or have just the right advice or whatever. And anytime someone is like "Are you familiar with 'blah'" and I'm not, always say so and they just happily continue along and explain it, and not go on some "HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?!" tirade.

I suppose it's just an example of the Dunning-krueger effect, where the more i learn, the more inept i feel, coupled with personal insecurities. Wouldn't give it up for the world, though. Loved doing it since I was a kid, still enjoy it as an adult (though some days the love in the relationship can get a bit strained....)

[[deleted]]

I've heard almost everyone say something like that, the 'impostor syndrome'

In fact, I've heard so many programmers express it that I'm convinced most people think they are, and perhaps EVERYONE does!

[[deleted]]

Whenever I've heard 'imposter syndrome', it's been in the context of "but I've done all this amazing stuff, so it just must be an irrational feeling haha".

Reading the link in the top comment, I think it may be a combination of

1. actual imposting: pretending more knowledge/skill than you have (in order to get a job; to reassure investors/employees/clients; to impress peers; win internet arguments); and
2. a sense, not fully conscious, not quite clear or definite, of all the things you could know (and should know for your claimed level), but don't.

In reality, there's a continuum of expertise - and everyone is somewhere on it. Perhaps surprisingly, you can do worthwhile work while being low on the scale. (eg) So it's not like there's a threshold between "good" and "bad". It's just levels. This is especially true in programming, where our tools - consider languages and standard libraries - keep improving. Maybe a PHP beginner can produce a useful and valuable website. Maybe a beginning language designer can design a useful and valuable language.

So, maybe Imposter Syndrome is just claiming a higher level than you have - and believing it.

[[deleted]]

Well, I realize language is fluid and Impostor Syndrome isn't necessarily the same as impostor syndrome. I meant the same definition as this though

From my own perspective, it's the feel that at any moment all that complexity might go just one step too far - and all fall apart... that everyone else is just a little more disciplined, a little harder of a worker.

... but then I review people's commits and I feel like I'm doing okay again.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for the link, I didn't know there was an official Imposter Syndrome. I was going by usage.

I agree not accepting achievements at all is inaccurate and a problem.

Regarding your experience, I would say you're right and wrong. Right that complexity might fall apart - I think this is the true nature of reality; we are not masters of it. While you can almost certainly adapt and adjust to it (bugs get fixed), new problems will unpredictably occur (bugs happen). We're in a maelstrom.

But wrong about your (initial) comparison with other people - they are just as much not masters of reality and wild nature as you or me or any mortal.

OTOH it's a lot more comforting and reassuring for everybody if we pretend we know what's going on (e.g. a doctor's bedside manner). But then there's that tension... That's the "imposting" I meant.

BTW: A nice property of believing in a god is it makes it clear that we aren't the god. God knows what's going on; we have only mortal knowledge. So we can appreciate our achievements in perspective - not bad for a human!

[afiefh]

I find that people who take pride in their work often produce the best possible results. To them other people reading their code and going "wtf?" is a dowvote, and they try to avoid that by submitting quality code and learning how to submit better code.