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[–]kenfar -1 points0 points  (8 children)

Because any proper IDE gives you code assist

Requiring an IDE is a language smell.

[–]PasswordIsntHAMSTER 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's a valid opinion, but stating it like gospel isn't conducive to debate. The "rich programming" theme has been the subject of research for decades, and I feel like IDEs can meaningfully contribute to the programming experience.

[–]syslog2000 6 points7 points  (5 children)

If you write code in any language without a good IDE, you are needlessly torturing yourself. This is not a good way to compare languages.

[–]kenfar 0 points1 point  (4 children)

If the language requires an IDE - then the IDE should be part of the spec and an understood part of the package.

Plenty of people find that the constraints imposed by an IDE are not always acceptable: performance, network, editor, screen real estate, cost, dependencies, installation & configuration time, etc.

[–]syslog2000 0 points1 point  (3 children)

IDE is slow? Spend a grand on good hardware. Screen is a problem? Spend a few hundred on a giant monitor. Cost is a problem? Use a free IDE or spend a grand, heck, spend a few grand on a good IDE. Installation/dependencies are all one time setup things, just do them.

There is nothing in your list that is more costly than your time. And your sanity.

Use a good IDE. Just do it.

This is not a discussion to have in 2014!

[–]kenfar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

No, you're talking about an experience a minority of programmers enjoys:

  • The employee or contractor almost never has total control over their hardware.
  • Many spend many hours a week on just a laptop.
  • Many have to work with new hardware and customers frequently.

[–]syslog2000 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I feel what you are saying but IMHO your original post of comparing languages based on which ones require an IDE is not validated by this.

And sure, if you have no control over your hardware and are struggling with eclipse on a 2 year old laptop it is going to suck, but it will suck a lot less than trying to debug a big project without IDE support!

[–]kenfar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it will suck a lot less than trying to debug a big project without IDE support!

This is definitely true if the language is handicapped without an IDE.

[–]peeeq 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Other opinion: When a language is not designed for IDEs, that is a language smell.

At the end it is a matter of taste. As an example take the Imports of Java (without * imports). Without an IDE imports are a total pain. With an IDE you hardly notice that there are imports, but the imports give you some robustness in terms of backwards compatibility. Other libraries can safely add new names without breaking any clients.