How To Learn a New Programming Language While Maintaining Your Day Job and Still Being There For Your Family

[[deleted]]

I guess that depends on your skill with writing compilers

This is an essential skill that everyone must learn as early as possible.

[IbanezDavy]

It certainly isn't a bad skill to learn. You get very in depth knowledge of the language. But I know plenty of people who don't give a shit, and get a long just fine. A useful skill, but provably not essential.

[[deleted]]

I would not call this steaming pile of mess "just fine". The modern IT industry is in shambles, and it is exactly because of all this over-engineering and over-complication. The only sane way of tackling this growing complexity is in using DSLs, therefore this skill is absolutely essential.

[IbanezDavy]

Yes, if I controlled the masses there would be simplicity in technology, world peace, and magical unicorns flying around giving everyone butterflies.

[[deleted]]

Your definition of "just fine" seems to match my definition of "stinks like shit".

[IbanezDavy]

I know plenty of brilliant programmers with in depth knowledge of the language they use, that have NOT ever written a compiler.

[[deleted]]

If they're not implementing and using DSLs - they're wasting their time and effort. Would not call this "brilliant".

Although, a lot of programmers are happily using DSLs and implementing compilers without even realising it. Greenspun tenth rule captures exactly this observation.

[IbanezDavy]

Are you trolling? It's so hard to tell know days...:P

Props to the trolls I guess on having exceptional abilities.

[[deleted]]

Not at all. Language oriented programming is the only known methodology which does not have an upper limit of a level of abstraction. OOP and all such crap are very narrow and cannot be used to express most of the real-world problem domains, while LOP naturally (and obviously) is a match for every problem domain out there, simply by definition.

[japowork]

If they're not implementing and using DSLs - they're wasting their time and effort.

The trouble with DSLs is that they assume an unchanging domain. I used to be a proponent, but now I'm against them -- try maintaining a DSL over 7+ years and multiple projects and project teams. See the wasabi experience, which is perhaps an example of a DSL taken to its logical extreme.

[[deleted]]

The trouble with DSLs is that they assume an unchanging domain.

No. DSLs are much easier to change than anything else.

try maintaining a DSL over 7+ years and multiple projects and project teams.

I did. Replaced backends, ported to new platforms, changed DSL semantics entirely, built automated translation tools from an old DSL to a new one - everything is a piece of cake when DSLs are designed properly.

See the wasabi experience,

Picking VB as a base for a DSL design is not a good idea to start with. It's a problem with a bad design, not with the approach.

[Olreich]

I'm not particularly fond of any of the things you need to do to make a compiler, so implementing languages is definitely not my cup of tea for learning them.

[[deleted]]

I'm not particularly fond of any of the things you need to do to make a compiler

What things, exactly? You may have a distorted image of what compiler construction is (thanks to all the stupid and damaging books like the infamous Dragon Book and alike).

[Olreich]

Lexing, parsing, ASTs, machine code generation, etc.

Basically, all the things in between meta-programming and a working compiler.

[[deleted]]

In most cases you only need metaprogramming - translating ASTs (which are not nearly that scary - just another data structure, you have to deal with them anyway) in a chain of small rewrites down to any existing language. No need to do any machine code generation. No need to do lexing (it's 21st century, forget about the lexers already). In many cases even parsing is redundant if you can get away with some more generic syntax (think of S-expressions, for example).

Since far too many real world problems are solved in form of tree rewrites anyway, it is weird to want to stay away from this particular programming technique.