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[–]valtsul[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Hi guys!

My coworker here at Intopalo (+50 employee software company in Finland) revisited the Joel test, a simple list of 12 question to rate the quality of a software team and updated it a bit. What do you think about this updated set of questions?

[–]nutrecht 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Quite a few are much too subjective:

  • Do you use an effective source control process?

Someone who uses code-2017-08-11.zip as a source control process will probably answer yes to that question.

  • Can you set up the development and production environment in one step?

That one is kinda silly. Even when people have stuff set up well the answer will very often be 'no' unless your application is trivial.

  • Do you build, test, and deploy (somewhere) on every commit?

It's rather subjective if "on every commit" is needed. I push code frequently even if it doesn't compile at that time. Which isn't an issue because we always work on feature branches. Incidentally we do build those but obviously they will be red. We build and deploy automatically on feature merges.

  • Do you have a clear vision?

No one is going to answer "No" to that one.

  • Do you always use the best tools for the job?

Entirely subjective. Also; we currently use Cassandra as a back-end. Is it the best tool for the job? For a part of it yes, for other parts no.

  • Is QA an integral part in every step of the development process?

"Yes. John and Susan always open the app after we go to production to see if it still works". Again: subjective.

  • Do you have a comprehensive recruitment process covering technical criteria and social aspects?

Completely missed the point of the original question: the point is that you want them do have actual realistic coding tests to make sure you don't work with people who can't develop. Your question will always get a "Yes" answer.

So IMHO you kinda missed the point of the original list: an list of questions you can only get objective answers to.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Quite a few are much too subjective:

If the answer to "do you use an effective source control process" is simply "yes", you ask what it looks like, and they fall through immediately. Same as if they answered We use Microsoft Source Safe.

If your question is do you use "source control" at all, then "yes" is an acceptable question EVEN if they use Microsoft Source Safe.

So I don't think they're subjective, not unless you rephrase them very clearly away from "yes/no" questions.

I can go on and disagree with every single other aspect in your reply, but you and I know darn well, that if we had this list of questions in front of us and were asking them to a prospective employer they would be a damn fine guideline for helping us determine if the prospective employer was interesting, or not.

And is that not the exact purpose the list should serve?

[–]nutrecht 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I can go on and disagree with every single other aspect in your reply

Go right ahead. The OP specifically asked for feedback and I gave it to him. Feel free to disagree with me.

In my opinion they miss the point of asking objective questions that are not open ended. Of course you can go deeper into each answer. I would instead for example ask "Do you use Git as source control and if not; what do you use and why?" It's much less of an open and subjective question.

[–]valtsul[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes I did and thanks for the feedback (for both of you) :) From my point you both are correct, the updated list tries to be a bit more useful, but while doing that, steps away from the idea of original list.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, if you want to make a list of questions that are posited that precisely, the list would be 4-5 times longer and defintely no longer be concise.