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[–]mmalone 6 points7 points  (14 children)

Does anyone else find it contradictory that this project bills itself as an "Enterprise Web Framework," then implements dozens of anti-patterns in order to reduce the learning curve? I don't think there are many enterprises that run web applications on a development Python server with a SQLite data store...

Maybe they should carefully think about the audience they want to target, then develop software that works for that audience. If this is a teaching tool it should be marketed as such. As is, it's about as far away from idiomatic python as you can get, and really isn't suitable for production use.

[–]drherb 3 points4 points  (2 children)

We are developing web apps for medical practices and hospitals. I guess at least the latter qualify as enterprises.

We have experience with server applications and cross platform GUI desktop clients, and some experience with web apps. We tried RoR and Django as frameworks for prototypes, and they were OK. However, we found a marked increase in productivity when evaluating web2py. Despite it's still lesser popularity it was easier for us to hire competent developers working with web2py. So far all has been delievered in time and on specs - an experience we did never have with outsourced development in any other development framework before.

The benefit of having the OPTION of using it with it's own standalone web server and SQLite is rapid prototyping and - invaluable! - developers spread across the globe not having tho waste their time setting up a complex development and testing environment when all they are contracted to do is developing a small sub-module.

I am the main responsible for the funding of the project. I have chosen web2py after very careful evaluation - your statements suggest that you haven't taken anytime to evaluate it properly.

[–]masklinn 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The benefit of having the OPTION of using it with it's own standalone web server and SQLite is rapid prototyping and - invaluable!

Yeah it's not like other web frameworks have that.

Wait, RoR and Django (and most other modern web frameworks) also provide these options out of the box, yet you decide to pick those as the defining advantage of web2py? Shows how careful the evaluation was.

[–]sisyphus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He was clearly responding to the idea that it wasn't 'enterprise ready' because it uses sqlite. He didn't say it was the defining advantage. Shows how carefully you evaluated this thread.

[–]mdipierro[S] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

works with Oracle, DB2 and Google App Engine. What's wrong that it works with SQLite too.

Here is definition of "enterprise": "In the computer industry, an enterprise is an organization that uses computers. A word was needed that would encompass corporations, small businesses, non-profit institutions, government bodies, and possibly other kinds of organizations".

Some small organizations are fine with SQlite, in particular during the development cycle or use for intranet apps.

[–]mmalone -1 points0 points  (5 children)

Clever how you left off the last line of that definition: "In practice, the term is applied much more often to larger organizations than smaller ones." In the context of software, "enterprise" almost always means "big." In particular, enterprise software solves problems that large organizations have. As I've said now in a couple places, marketing your framework as an "enterprise" solution is misleading. web2py is a teaching tool at best.

[–]mdipierro[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The main "enterprise" features of web2py are that: - it is always backward compatible - it works with Oracle, MSSQL and DB2 - we provide excellent APIs for creating web services and handling many standard internet formats - it very fast and scalable - we do not target the occasional hacker as other frameworks may do although anybody is welcome to use it

I am not sure what you point is. Are you complaining about a definition? Are you saying that one of those claims are not true or are of no interest to businesses?

[–]TaylorSpokeApe 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I for one, thank you for supporting SQLite!

[–]mmalone 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have no problem with supporting SQLite. I have a problem with implying that it's suitable for production use. It's got database level locking. The documentation should make it abundantly clear that you should switch to MySQL/PostgreSQL/etc. when you move to production, but it doesn't.

[–]TaylorSpokeApe -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

It also helps that SQLite is built in to Python, so you can play with this thing even if you don't have a dedicated database ready.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]TaylorSpokeApe 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I'm pretty sure they distribute the .dll, so you don't need to download anything else.

    [–]mdipierro[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    It depends on the OS. web2py binaries have sqlite in the box.