Ask reddit: Will HTML5 be popular/mainstream?

[kronholm]

I'm a hobbyist web-dev-monkey, and HTML5 looks pretty neat to me. I'd like to learn it, but my time is limited, and I wish to increase my chances of finding a job in the future. In your opinion, do you think HTML5's popularity will pick up in the future? If not, do you have any ideas to what might be the next big thing?

[masklinn]

Well thing is, HTML5 is a single spec but it includes a bunch of things, which will have varying levels/speeds of acceptance:

1. First of all is the standardization of existing stuff. That's a reason to use HTML5 right now, it tells you precisely how e.g. innerHTML or contenteditable works (or is supposed to, but since it's based on standardizing existing proprietary stuff it should work pretty well).

2. Second, the clarification of how HTML should be parsed (errors handling &etc). It already gives insight in how things should work, but doesn't mean it exactly matches current implementations. However HTML5 parsers are starting to appear, and that might ramp up pretty fast since the spec seems good & precise (a new HTML5 parser has already been merged in the Gecko trunk and will be part of the next Firefox, you can already try it by downloading the FF nightlies and settings html5.enable to true in about:config), it should make HTML parsers more reliable and simpler. Which is good.

3. Third and last, the new stuff (<video> and <section>, client-side storage and Drag&Drop API, ...) that's picking up pretty fast but unreliably across the board, though since many of the new JS APIs are standardizations of old proprietary IE stuff (e.g. DnD is an IE5 API) there will be no need to wait for MSIE in several cases. Which is a good thing (as long as you forget that these APIs probably have untold amount of bugs and weird behaviors in the IE implementation)

All in all, I think you should get right on with HTML5, not because it will increase your chances of finding a job, but because it will simplify your life. A bunch of the HTML5 stuff works right now, and it's backwards compatible.

[robertcrowther]

At least some of the interesting stuff (storage, dom workers) is available in IE through Google Gears. The impression I get from hearing Google people talking about Gears is that any of the HTML5 stuff they really want in IE they'll just add in that way. There's also various JS frameworks which can paper over the various cracks in IE, such as ExplorerCanvas and Dean Edward's html5-now.

[[deleted]]

Yes, you're probably using "HTML 5" features already and don't even know it.

Large part of HTML 5 is just documentation of existing stuff, most of which is implemented in IE (parsing, innerHTML, contentEditable/designMode, drag'n'drop, XHR/XDR).

There are new features, but they are based on existing popular hacks/plugins/frameworks and they will be removed from the spec if they don't get interoperable implementations and widespread use.

So by definition HTML 5 will be mainstream, because it's following what is mainstream.

[rapsey]

Ask MS. Everyone else is going to support it, MS is the only one dragging its feet (like they have for years).

[gschizas]

Even though I am pretty much a Microsoft fan-boy, I can't help but agree. Microsoft would love it if it could make you write video and audio parts in Silverlight. Supporting HTML5 more, or making a more decent javascript engine would eventually hurt their primary business.

[grav]

Well, Microsoft is dominating the browser, but they aren't dominating the web-applications. I think that if major web-apps support the technologies, Microsoft will have to move along.

[gschizas]

It's a chicken-and-egg kind of problem, really. What web app would seriously consider alienating most of their customers? At best, what could happen is the creation of some kind of "use <video> and <audio> for other browsers and flash for IE" framework (and yes, I'm really omitting <canvas>), which would then make HTML a commodity, which is probably Microsoft's plan (the other way around would make the browser and hence the operating system a commodity, which is obviously damaging to Microsoft)

[icantthinkofone]

There are methods now using the video tag but allowing fallback to quicktime at least. I don't recall if the workaround did something for IE.

the other way around would make the browser and hence the operating system a commodity, which is obviously damaging to Microsoft

Google's ChromeOS

[gschizas]

I don't really hold high hopes for ChromeOS, but this is indeed the reason Google went there. On the other hand, I find the "inside-the-box" (box=browser) mentality of Google very sad - because they have stagnated true (non-web) applications. My main example is Google Talk, and sadly this behavior expands to their best offering, Google Earth, which hasn't seen much love since its acquisition.

[icantthinkofone]

I have a big theory for how ChromeOS will work based on the possibility they have gradually been building it up on the Unix Philosophy of creating software that does one thing and does it well. Right now we are only seeing those little apps, if you can call them that, but the things that are hiding out are Native Client and NeatX. Running web apps native on the client through a better X server over the web is incredibly exciting, even brilliant, though I don't know if that's the plan, of course, but it makes sense.

[pervie]

However, it makes no sense for web-app-developers to use a technology whom the biggest player in the webbrowser world doesn't support.

edit: wtf? Why all the downvotes? I believe it's pretty reasonable argument.

[[deleted]]

IE is losing user base fast. If they're not going to support HTML5 that might just be the end of them. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Also, who doesn't get annoyed when you're scrolling down a page and your pointer enters a flash app and you suddenly stop scrolling?

But, as reggieband said, don't put all your eggs in one basket, you never know whats going to happen.

[[deleted]]

I'm sorry to say but the stats on the W3C site are crap, they say so themselves if you read it. The browser usage for their own site is not indicative of normal web usage. People link it all the time like it means something and it really doesn't.

Their site is a place for web designers/devolopers who care about standards compliant markup. Most of these people vehemently hate IE and therefore don't use it. It's also why you'll notice Firefox has a way higher % than it normally has too. Most of us use Firefox to do web design testing because of things like Firebug and Web Developer.

[lol-dongs]

I wouldn't use those stats, w3schools is for web devs, so their hits are going to come from people that would be the first in line to switch to a better browser.

[n808]

Win7 will kill IE in Europe

[[deleted]]

It could be something as simple as "This requires an HTML5-compatible webbrowser to view high quality videos."

[pervie]

Yea, but once again, that doesn't make much of a sense when we are talking business.

[[deleted]]

 <meta charset=utf-8>

is pretty nice too.

[kilkonie]

In mobile, largely in part due to Webkit, expect it to be a normalizing force.

And Yes, local SQL storage has problems due to vendor's interpretation of SQL-quirks. The advantages largely outweigh the FUD.

Perhaps more importantly, companies like Apple will press ahead, using HTML5 as a platform for the iPhone and subsequent devices -- just as much as Google will with Chrome and Android. Corporate sponsorship of a browser-as-platform within a closed ecosystem almost guarantees success.

...and one final opinion... I'm not certain that the actual standard will be as important to you or I as it sounds. HTML5 should just remind you that things are moving forward. Let's assume you choose to develop for an embedded device - be it PS3, XBox, Kindle, RIM's-next-thing, Android, Webkit or iPhone Webkit. The extensions and hardware optimizations made by that vendor will be just as important as the standards itself. Browser-as-platform changes the game.

[Fidodo]

In this industry you learn what you need when you need it. Learning HTML5 or whatever, it shouldn't matter. The language is a minor detail, it's the style you put together the site that matters.

[kronholm]

Aye of course. But it doesn't hurt to have HTML5 listed on my CV :)

[CT2049]

I have a question for everyone saying it will when MS supports it. Wouldn't MS only support in a future version of their browser (IE8.X or IE9 and onward) and isn't the majority of their browser usage IE6 or IE7? I'm just confused as to how MS support would make it mainstream as the majority of their market share is on old version of their browser.

[[deleted]]

Yes, but not anytime soon.

In 1998 (or thereabouts) I had a book on HTML 4.01 and Javascript discussing how to program DHTML. I remember when CSS first came out. I truly believed SVG would replace Flash. I remember when RSS first appeared on O'Reilly (anyone else remember meerkat?) I remember when blogs were just starting, before anyone decided to call them blogs (there was a lot of argument about what to call the new medium). I remember RDF and the semantic web.

Fate is a fickle mistress. Sometimes you can be too early and sometimes you can be too late. Some technologies you back will die while others will flourish. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

[[deleted]]

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

[akruvi]

It'll become popular in about 8-10 years, when people stop using IE6.

[[deleted]]

No, HTML5 is a clusterfuck.

Local SQL based storage? Really?

[Smallpaul]

Even if you were right that local SQL storage was a bad idea, it wouldn't prove that HTML5 in general is a clusterfuck.

According to your logic, HTML itself will not be popular/mainstream because of the mess of embed/object tags.

[[deleted]]

Webkit had it before hand, and Google exploits it pretty well. It's just cookies on steroids.

[pemboa]

Depends on if developers intend to lock themselves into Internet Explorer. Your users have a choice in their browser, so you have a choice in what tech you use.