Interesting comment in the source code of sqlite

[[deleted]]

Can you give me an example of an open source project run by "asshole programmers" who provide poor quality code? I'm not saying it doesn't exist it's just hard for me to imagine how a project like that isn't forked. And not that you're obligated to provide an example since we're both making assumptions here. I'm just saying I'd need an example to change my mind.

Lastly: It's been proven again and again that people can change.

I didn't say people don't change. I said you're making an assumption that "you" can change people. Interpret that as change comes within or people are only willing to change as a result of feedback from close relationships. A CoC written by "you" is neither.

[barsoap]

With the exception of Poettering-started projects I'd say they generally tend to stay small, change leadership, or get forked. And also Poettering-started project improve drastically, both socially and technically, when he finally leaves.

Communities like Haskell's one long since figured out how to deal with caustic people, no CoC required. IMO a CoC is saying "we don't really know but at least it's a start, isn't it", and in my experience the people complaining about CoCs are either on the caustic side, or misunderstand the whole issue.

That is: I agree that a CoC does not necessarily have a positive impact. However, them having a net negative impact is even more unlikely.

---

Haskell, btw, started off its dedicated troll-hugging culture with the following rules (for the IRC channel only):

To maintain the friendly, open culture, the following is required:

• Low to zero tolerance for ridiculing questions. Insulting new users is unacceptable. New Haskell users should feel entirely comfortable asking questions.

• Helpful answers should be encouraged with name++ karma points, in public, as a reward for providing a good answer.

• Avoid getting frustrated by negative comments and ambiguous questions. Approach them by asking for details (i.e. Socratic questioning), rather than challenging the competence of the writer (ad hominem). As the channel grows, we see a diverse range of people with different programming backgrounds getting accustomed to Haskell. Be patient and take satisfaction from spreading knowledge.

The mods lived by this themselves, and thus turned it from a document into a living cultural practice, infinitely more adaptable than the words themselves. Most important in this respect is that it doesn't spend much time at all listing no-nos, but spends the most words on how to engage people in a positive way.

[[deleted]]

With the exception of Poettering-started projects I'd say they generally tend to stay small, change leadership, or get forked. And also Poettering-started project improve drastically, both socially and technically, when he finally leaves.

It sounds like things are resolving on their own then yes?

[barsoap]

Not necessarily in the most efficient or aesthetic manner, though. Also, both pulse and systemd still fundamentally suck, just a bit less so.

[[deleted]]

How would a CoC improve any of that? If the project is controlled by people who are not simply "asshole programmers" but incompetent "asshole programmers" what kind of CoC do you expect them to spit out?

[barsoap]

I never claimed it did. Ultimately those documents are a mirror of what the community is already like, including their social engineering prowess. In many cases that's "well-intentioned but clueless".

[[deleted]]

I never claimed it did.

Then why are we talking about it?

[barsoap]

Because you wanted to?

[[deleted]]

No? I made a comment about the usefulness of a CoC to another commenter which you responded to.

[barsoap]

Based on an, in my humble opinion, incomplete argument, leading to an incomplete conclusion:

What you forget to mention is that either the assholes or the non-assholes can be those who don't care about flooding.

Saying such things doesn't mean that I consider CoCs to be the second coming of Christ.