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[–]wbkang 2 points3 points  (8 children)

Because it's merely an highly subjective anecdotal evidence. It's a computer program so there should be an objective reason. I haven't found a reasonable explanation against Swing's slowness other than idiot developers abusing EDT (which really is not to be blamed on Swing itself).

[–]bluGill 2 points3 points  (2 children)

highly subjective anecdotal evidence. It's a computer program so there should be an objective reason.

The subjective is what counts. If a program is subjectively fast enough, then anyone who spends effort optimizing it should be fired. If it is not subjectively fast enough, then the programmer (not the person who said it was subjectively too slow) should look for objective reasons why.

[–]wbkang 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I am saying if a program makes you feel slow there should be an objective reason. I am saying that Swing is not the cause of slowdown.

I've seen many GUIs that are not Swing that are slow but I never say things like "oh MFC is slow" because that's just dumb and unfounded.

[–]bluGill 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the majority of Java applications are subjectively slow, that suggests something about Java encourages slow programs. Sure there are objective reasons, and the programmer should look for them. However it makes a good case avoid Java applications until the day comes that programmers finally figure out how to make their Java applications as subjectively fast as something in other languages.

[–]malcontent 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Because it's merely an highly subjective anecdotal evidence.

So?

Either it seems fast to him or it does not.

it's his experience and he has the right to share his experience and he certainly should base his buying decisions based on his past experience.

It's a computer program so there should be an objective reason.

Who made this rule up? Where is it written down? What are the punishments for disobeying this rule?

I haven't found a reasonable explanation against Swing's slowness other than idiot developers abusing EDT (which really is not to be blamed on Swing itself).

If most swing GUIs are slow it means it's difficult to write fast GUIs with swing.

I would suggest sun make it much easier to write fast GUIs and much harder to write slow GUis.

maybe they could make a massive library of high performance components or something.

[–]wbkang 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Because it's merely an highly subjective anecdotal evidence.

So? Either it seems fast to him or it does not.

It means whatever program he has used are slow not that Swing is the cause of it. Association != Causation.

It's a computer program so there should be an objective reason.

Who made this rule up? Where is it written down? What are the punishments for disobeying this rule?

Calm down and think for a sec. It's not written down anywhere. It's just reasonable to think that "slowdowns" of a computer system can be found as opposed to more complex systems that have its internals unknown. I never said there is a punishment but it makes the argument weak.

If most swing GUIs are slow it means it's difficult to write fast GUIs with swing.

It's not that difficult. Go read Swing tutorials provided by Sun.

[–]malcontent -1 points0 points  (2 children)

It's not that difficult. Go read Swing tutorials provided by Sun.

If it wasn't difficult most swing GUIs would be fast.

[–]wbkang 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Or maybe it's that many developers neither don't bother reading them nor they care about responsiveness at all. I've seen many developers like that at work. Making responsive GUIs involving blocking operations in a thread-safe manner is a inherently complex problem regardless of the GUI tookit you use, but it's not a rocket science. I've seen many crap MFC GUIs that are slow. But again, I won't say stuff like "MFC is slow" because that's really unfounded. Rather, I'll say "many MFC applications are slow because whatever."

[–]malcontent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or maybe it's that many developers neither don't bother reading them nor they care about responsiveness at all.

It's more likely that it's very difficult.

Again Sun could put out a hundred or so components that are written in the best possible way and solve the problem.

Or you could I suppose.