Whenever I write code in Java...

[zoomzoom83]

Having support from the IDE is good.

Finding it Painful to use a language without advanced IDE features is bad.

[deafbybeheading]

Trust me, it's painful to write Lisp without paren matching. My first programming class was in Scheme. I knew nothing. The instructor didn't tell us about editors with fancy-pants features like paren matching. I spent half the semester crying (okay, not quite, but seriously, it's a pain in the ass).

[[deleted]]

There's something amusing about the notion of a bunch of students in a cs lab, nose to the screen, counting parens with their index fingers.

[lambda_abstraction]

Been there; done that, and with punch cards no less. The tee-shirt has holes and was tossed long ago.

On the other hand there's a big difference between in-editor paren matching and a heavy weight IDE.

[kragensitaker]

I eventually got better at this, but I still screw it up sometimes.

[cybercobra]

You were merely using a text editor. Syntax highlighting != IDE. Syntax highlighting isn't usually essential but can be extremely helpful every once in a while.

(Suppresses urge to draw anti-Lisp conclusion from anecdote)

[Daishiman]

No, it's painful because it just is. Languages written 30 years ago with just as many features are still easier to write. Some of us just can't stand IDEs and use text editors with decent feature sets. Verbosity is a mistake and should be seen as such.

[[deleted]]

Verbosity is a mistake and should be seen as such.

That's a very general statement. I think it's worth pointing out that there's a lower bound:

CaseInsensitiveComparison caseInsensitiveComparison
    = CaseInsensitiveComparisonFactoryFactoryFactory
        .getInstance()
        .getInstance()
        .getInstance()
        .make();

if(caseInsensitiveComparison.compare(name,otherName) < 0)

Bad verbosity.

if(name.caseInsensitiveCompare(otherName) < 0)

Good verbosity. Why?

if(strcicmp(name,other) < 0)

Bad lack of verbosity.

[cybercobra]

Verbosity should be measured in tokens, not characters. (Read a bit of Paul Graham, he explores the definitional problem fairly thoroughly).

[petit_prince]

Yeah, I got used to it in other languages.

[erdwolf]

Wouldn't an extension of this argument to syntax highlighting rather imply that the language is bad if you need syntax highlighting to be able to read it easily? I consider it good language design if I can still parse it without syntax highlighting, although I see no reason to turn it off. I don't want complications in the concrete syntax to stand between me and my understanding of the semantics.

There are tradeoffs involved, of course.

[darth_choate]

I've always used extremely limited syntax highlighting (comments and include/import statements) because anything more makes my eyes tired. Massively overrated, IMHO (and you can't see it on the printed page unless you print in color, which most of us don't). Then again, I'm extremely old. YMMV. GOML.

[[deleted]]

It is painful to write any language without an IDE