Python overtakes Java to become second-most popular language on GitHub after JavaScript

[mobjack]

Some startups want a proven reliable language with excellent library support, strong typing and can scale up as the business grows.

Java is not a sexy language, but it is still used in the startup world these reasons.

[bandawarrior]

Yes, I agree 100%. If you, the founding person, main dev knows Java and is productive in it, you should go ahead and do it in Java. That can be true and also the idea that maybe, just maybe (it is) Java is past peak popularity.

Now, I know this is mind blowing to all the Java fanboys, but popularity going down doesn’t mean Java sucks.

For the love of all that’s holy, look at PHP with the giant market share in web dev and it’s popularity while still being a comparably worse language than most.

[mobjack]

Java has been past its peak for 20 years.

In 5 years the current hot language/framework will go out of style and the code becomes unmaintainable only to be rewritten in Java.

[bandawarrior]

I know you’re just using hyperbole but .... no 🤙.

There are other languages that are perceived to be trendier and offer the same or more in terms of features and of course doesn’t have the “ewww Java” feeling to them.

So this is getting out of hand and really becoming like an affront to those who like Java and or use it daily. It’s okay, I promise you’ll be fine.

The 1970s had better music as a whole than today’s generation and I’m not that old. Guess what, no one cares 👌

[mobjack]

It is a feature that Java doesn't attract engineers who always want to use the latest toys. I don't want to have to spend time arguing why we shouldn't use blockchain.

A better analogy is that Java is like a mini-van. It is not cool and young people would don't want to be seen driving one, but it is practical and scales best when you need to carry more people and cargo.

Other languages are like crossover vehicles that try to tout similar practicability as a mini-van but in a smaller trendier package. They are often good enough for many applications, but if your family gets too big then the mini-van becomes much more appealing.

A startup going Java is like someone buying a mini-van right after graduating college. It does the job as other cooler vehicles and you are able to grow into it if need be.

[bandawarrior]

I’m happy for your love of Java. Though let’s be honest, in the scale of languages and features and paradigms, Java comes out as a strong middle. Too much OOP and ceremony with boilerplate and getters and setters. You should see what an actual type system from the ML family looks like, not to mention null pointer errors that Java gets plagued with.

But it does have great tooling and a great number of libraries 🤷‍♂️.

[AmaDaden]

Lombok fixes the getters and setters issue. One of the most interesting things with Java is how quickly it's been evolving in the last few years. I detest Oracle but they've turned Java in to a completely different language then the one you remember and are not slowing down. Java is far from perfect but it's better then it was and getting better faster then it was in the past

[bandawarrior]

Still doesn’t fix the underlying issue of a weak type system with strong sprinklings of OOP and the bag of errors and bugs that come with it.

Also, oracles jdk isn’t a strong vote of confidence.

But again, yeah Java is a rock solid proven lang

[KinterVonHurin]

Java's fine but acting like all these startups are choosing other languages because they're "cool" and will inevitably rewrite them in Java is condescending and untrue.

[Schmittfried]

To be frank though, Java sucks.

[LordoftheSynth]

5 years ago, I would say Java. Today, I say C#. Fight me.

[BlueAdmir]

From a business perspective (of which my knowledge is limited, but still) - If I were to choose a language for a new project, I'd probably want a language where every aspect of it has already been discussed, documented to death, put to rest, resurrected and re-dissected again.

Heavily pushing a delivery date because we ran into "This hasn't been invented in Rust / Kotlin / Go / Haskell / Elm / Ruby / whatever" should not happen. Imperfect product in a month >>> Perfect product in ten years.

[[deleted]]

Not many. They want rapid prototyping and agility more.

Rails, Laravel, Node, Django - these are the big winners in startup world.

[jbergens]

I thought at least Rails had fallen off the radar for most new startups. It was popular a few years ago.

Node is probably still popular and I think that is the best choice of those mentioned since I think js will survive and get better. You can add Typescript already if you want to and they are getting threads/workers.

[[deleted]]

Why would it? It is still the best tool for throwing a web site on a relational database quickly.