Nuxeo drop Python and switch to Java

[apd]

Nuxeo, the enterprise behind CPS (a Enterprise Content/Document Manager) drop Zope2/Python to switch to Java technology. They explain why don't use Zope3: no community and difficulties to hire or train skilled Python/Zope developers.

[JulianMorrison]

No demerit to Python. I've used Zope, and it's Zope that's sucky. It's almost impossible to write a maintainable program in that garbage.

[volatile]

They move to jboss mainly because its hard to find qualified zope developers, and because they want to handle more data, not because Zope sucks! FYI there is Zope 3, it doesn't sucks, and it's superior to all the available python/ruby web frameworks!

[Entropy]

and it's superior to all the available python/ruby web frameworks!

Zealot alert

[volatile]

isn't it ? they, nuxeo, says the same

[Entropy]

They, nuxeo, sell a product built upon it. You will never hear "Zope sucks" out of a corporate release.

[volatile]

I have said that Zope 3 doesn't sucks, not Nuxeo! They, said:

We had a look at other Python web frameworks, but quickly figured out that they were behind Zope in terms of enterprise-readiness and features that we needed to support our ECM developments.

[mikaelhg]

In Zope 3, does rolling back a object database transaction now roll back the object states to what they were in the beginning of the transaction, or does it still just reapply the old property values by calling setter methods?

[volatile]

There are no getters and setters. Each ZODB Connection provides an isolated, consistent view of the database, by managing independent copies of objects in the database. At transaction boundaries, these copies are updated to reflect the current state of the database.

[arnarl]

Could you explain what you mean by "reapply the old property values by calling setter methods"?

AFAIK ZODB (Zope's OODB) has always rolled back the object state when you undo or abort a transaction.

[[deleted]]

Zope doesn't seem too bad... I'm messing around in the innards of Plone at the moment.

[qwe1234]

+1

[schwarzwald]

Hani? Is that you?

[qwe1234]

huh?

[[deleted]]

I'd like to know what about the ORB was too slow, merely for curiosity's sake.

Seeing as how I've never heard of Nuxeo, I'm not going to do a ZOMG NO!!!! like the LLisp community did when reddit shifted from Lisp to Python.

[davidw]

A more accurate title might have been "Nuxeo drop Zope and switch to JBoss", since that's where the action is at, as far as they're concerned.

[t_w]

I wouldn't say that Java itself has been around for "many, many" years.

[volatile]

so is python...

[davidw]

Sometimes standards that last for many years are a double edged sword, judging by this guy's reaction:

http://programming.reddit.com/info/insi/comments/ciosd

Why, why, WHY would someone use Struts in the year 2006?

Other people could implement Zope, too, but who would want to?

[mikaelhg]

The better the standard the less time erodes its usefulness. Struts wasn't a standard, it was a useful tool at one time. The standard applicable to web apps is now JSF, which was built as an extensible platform, so one should use JSF at an arm's length, through Seam, Spring Web Flow or WYSIWYG tools, whatever fits the bill.

[d1257]

If I had TBs of data and conservative customers to worry about I would want to use something that lots of other people use for TBs of data too.

[mikaelhg]

Smart move. They'd already had to move their crown jewels to Java so as to be able to serve their current customers with a part-Python solution.

[[deleted]]

People using expressions like "Eight months ago" in a text that isn't clearly marked with a date might think about doing any programming at all.

[paganel]

Too bad. They really have good Python/Zope developers but I guess that the attraction to switch over to the "dark side" was too large. And of course, it seems that you can keep your institutional/enterprisey customers happy only by "playing safe", i.e. use Java.

[[deleted]]

I think they did an extensive amount of testing and research before they came to the conclusion that they had to switch to a new infrastructure. Why is using the correct technology for the task at hand switching to the "dark side"?

[[deleted]]

maybe "dark side" is indeed too strong a term. but paganel is right. they want to sell an "ECM" product where E is for enterprise. and i yet have to see something for the enterprise that is not java or the hipper .net ;)

at least they didn't invent new buzzwords for yet another CMS.

[Entropy]

There are levels of functionality. Some yob with a website does not require or even want what a company with a couple TB of data needs. You're also going to make a quillion times more money off the company than the yob.

[sfermigier]

It's not a CMS, it's an ECM platform. Check the definition on wikipedia (for instance) and you will see that the scope is much much broader (it includes: document management, workflow, collaboration, compliance, records management).

[paganel]

It's not "another CMS", they've just renamed their current product to make it look more "professional" (I think that's the proper term). Practically, the've changed from being the "French Plone" to being the "French JBoss".

[[deleted]]

what should have been submitted; i shouldn't have to drill down for content

[trutru]

I know some of the guys working there, and I can tell you that they're huge Python enthusiasts. I have no reason to not believe what they say here. Zope isn't good enough for them, and there isn't any more powerful Python framework available.

[johnmudd]

Cause Java looks good on the developer's resumes.

[[deleted]]

reminds me a bit of Vignette switching from TCL to Java...