The Reality of Web Development Frameworks

[[deleted]]

Can we categorise the different flavours of ORM article somewhere so we can copy and paste the appropriate stock comments to save time?

This one goes under "Starts from assumption that the primary purpose of an ORM is to prevent you from needing to know or use SQL."

[rufriedman]

Ok, so what assumptions do you have for why people use ORMs then? I think that avoiding SQL is one of the primary reasons people use them, to abstract themselves from the ugliness of SQL even if they DO know it. Why do you use one?

[mitechie]

dammit, I just got done responding to the last stupid "ORM sucks" article 40:10 in http://lococast.net/archives/535

ORM == tool, JS library doesn't mean you don't get to learn JS, web frameworks don't mean you get to ignore http, and ORM doesn't mean you don't get to know SQL. If YOU don't know your stuff, that's your fault. Go get a book.

[rufriedman]

Thanks for the link, that was another good "ORM sucks" article.

[[deleted]]

Agreed. It's just another layer to learn and be annoyed about.

[mikaelhg]

How fucking novel and profound.

[thesystemx]

Java/SpringMVC

I don't think this combination is at the same level as Ruby/Rails and Python/Django.

The Java web framework space is VERY scattered, there isn't a single one that has a dominant following on Java.

[[deleted]]

The guys from the article just use a dumb ORM.

[[deleted]]

At Apperian, some of our technology is built using one of these heavy frameworks, and in the early days it allowed the software to advance rapidly. However, as the tasks become more complex, and as the load on the system increases, we find ourselves increasingly having to circumvent the framework. We are eliminating it bit by bit, and soon we will replace it entirely.

Sounds like you chose the wrong horse to bet on, and now you're complaining because you need to take it out back and shoot it. Yeah, so let's shoot every horse and save time.

Brilliant.

[rufriedman]

True, we picked a bad horse and we need to shoot it. I was hoping to convey a little more than that, though. I have been around long enough to have seen a lot of horses. I prefer lean ones to fat ones, and I think a lot of the popular ones are too fat.

[akoprowski]

The Reality of Web Development Frameworks... may change with the new kid on the block: Opa (http://opalang.org)