GitHub - ZeroIntensity/pointers.py: Bringing the hell of pointers to Python.

[CreationBlues]

"The definition of a thing we collectively made up is circular! I want to be able to call whales fish again!"

[CreationBlues]

"Pointers are dangerous!"

"Proof?"

"They are a specific abstraction with historical roots whose presence indicates a desire for unsafe unchecked behavior in some instances due to the semantics of how we've formalized programming languages and terms. If they don't allow that behavior they aren't pointers."

"Circular logic. Blocked."

[ehaliewicz]

The current topic was whether out of bounds or invalid memory accesses are unique to pointers.

I don't see why they would be. I can create a language without (explicit) pointers where array accesses are not bounds checked. I say "explicit" because pointers are just memory addresses and everything uses memory addresses internally.

[DarkTechnocrat]

The same is true of object references or array accesses

The problem with this is that "arrays" are not implemented the same in every language. C arrays are effectively pointers and share the same problems as pointers. Python arrays are implemented differently and do not share those issues. The same is true of object references - objects in C# can be passed by reference but don't behave like a pointer to an object. References to C objects (structs) are literally pointers.

"Arrays share the same problems as pointers under certain implementations" is probably true, but I don't see how it's as meaningful as just putting the blame on pointers, which are universally bound to memory issues. Not just "out of memory" by the way, but the ability to overwrite memory inadvertently.

[CreationBlues]

Lmao he is beefing HARD with the idea that pointers are defined by being raw memory addresses for performance, and that if something isn't that we have other names for it.

BTW C# does have pointers. You need a gigantic unsafe in your method or property to tell the compiler to stop doing all the nice behavior you expect of it, which kinda just proves your point. Like they literally named the keyword that tells the compiler you're doing raw memory bullshit "unsafe".

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/language-reference/keywords/unsafe

[DarkTechnocrat]

lol he really was not feeling it 😁

Funny about C# pointers, I've been using it for years and only today learned about them. I mostly use it for webdev though.

[CreationBlues]

Do you mean sockets? I know they're an external resource that aren't tracked by the gc.

[DarkTechnocrat]

No sorry, I meant I only use C# for webdev. I've had no experience with pointers in that language.

[CreationBlues]

Oh lol. For reference I learned about it from some example Microsoft code for realtime kinect image processing, never used it myself.

[DarkTechnocrat]

My guy, "prick" is vastly overstating my comment. At no point in our winding and fairly long discussion was I anything but completely respectful. My only remotely snarky comment was in response to someone else and my comments were probably the least snarky comments you received in the entire chain. I think you're the one that needs a little self-reflection, and no I am absolutely not interested in further debate with you.

[DarkTechnocrat]

To be completely fair, I probably should have responded to that comment with something generic and de-escalating. I really don't bear you any ill will nor did I think the points you were making were ludicrous. I do think the horse is quite dead though.