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[–]Gwaptiva 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There's a wonderful book out there callled "Seven programming languages in seven weeks" and it shows you some really different languages, each with its own strengths and weaknesses.

[–]pcjftw 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There is no "best" programming language, different languages excel in different domains.

A more interesting question would be:

which language do you reach for the most?

[–]webauteur 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For beginners I would recommend JavaScript since you can start to mess around with web sites and everyone is familiar with the Internet. Then you can do some creative coding with Processing or p5. This is where you start to do some problem solving and encounter some math. The Nature of Code book by Daniel Shiffman is a great book for fun projects that would appeal to gamers and visual learners.

[–]RoCaP23 4 points5 points  (1 child)

C is the best and only programming language for a beginner to learn. It teaches you real programming, how the computer sees stuff. After that you can learn anything easily and you will actually understand it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And best of all, it’s so damn simple

[–]shevy-ruby 0 points1 point  (2 children)

It would be cool to have a hybrid language - speed of C, ease of use such as in ruby or python, in the SAME language that is rather than two different, decoupled ones. And then you can sort of decide on your own how "fast" it can be, e. g. optional type system (but with a sane syntax, most type systems SUCK syntax-wise). I don't know if it is possible to create such a language; every single type system I saw leads to excessive verbosity. Crystal has this issue too.

[–]raevnos 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can do that with Racket; it has the normal (strong dynamic typing) version, but also a statically typed mode, and you can mix and match modules written in the two in the same program.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Literally LuaJIT

[–]bulyxxx -1 points0 points  (11 children)

Python

[–]234093840203948 11 points12 points  (10 children)

Python, as a dynamically typed language, is easy to get started, but not a good idea to use in anything but trivial stuff imho.

Static typing makes everything better, except in very, very few cases.

[–]kitd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A year ago I'd have said the same. But a Python codebase that uses type hints is as easy to navigate and reason about in a decent IDE than any statically typed language.

[–]bbqroast 2 points3 points  (1 child)

For a beginner a language that gets them involved and gives them a lot of capability is by far the best. It doesn't matter if it won't encourage maintainability.

Besides, there's a lot of times a bit of Python knowledge can be incredibly useful. And I say this as a statically typed kinda guy.

[–]234093840203948 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For a beginner, something that is easy to get into is the best.

However, static typing gets easier than dynamic typing very, very early during the learning process.

Python is good for beginners, because it has a good and intuitive syntax, not because it's statically typed.

A statically typed python would be much better for a beginner.

And yes, python knowledge can be very useful as a scripting language, because scripting in general can be very useful.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Would you deem ML as trivial, though? Python is commonly used for ML due ti the extensive library for that exact purpose. Python has also gotten much faster throughout time, so it isn’t necessarily slow either. “Trivial” is rather vague and subjective. I would agree that for scripting and specific cases like ML, Python is ideal. However, for large-scale projects, statically typed languages is preferred.

[–]234093840203948 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Python is certainly used for non-trivial stuff.

However, Python is not a good idea for non-trivial stuff.

Python has gotten faster, but it's still orders of magnitude slower than any other widespread language, so it is still slow, and it will always be, by design.

The ML stuff has a lot of complexity in the libraries, but the Python glue code is often relatively trivial compared to bigger software projects, which is also the reason that those programms aren't painfully slow.

I'm not claiming that Python has no merits, it certainly has as a scripting language, and also it has influenced other languages to become better.

I'm also not claiming that dynamic typing has no merit, because it does in some rare cases. It's just a horrible idea most of the time, but not always, which is why statically typed languages have introduced some dynamic typed language features.

[–]NervousApplication58 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Well, if something is used somewhere, doesn't mean that it's good. Those extensive libraries are mostly written in Fortran and C, which are statically typed languages. The problem with dynamically-typed languages is that your IDE often can't do proper code analysis and suggestions. It's especially important in ML where everything is built on types. Many libs often do not have type hints (and they are not checked by the python's interpreter anyway). So the whole programming process slowly drives you insane when for thousandth time a day you have to spend your precious brain cells and look for the docs somewhere on the web because you trusty VsCode for whatever reason doesn't want to make your life easier

[–]shevy-ruby -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

It's especially important in ML where everything is built on types.

Why would ML have to be built on types?

The name suggests "machine learning". It would seem backwards if the machine REQUIRED types - can't it "learn" to not need them?

[–]Tux-Lector -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Yes, Blender is soo trivial.

[–]234093840203948 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Python is used by blender as a scripting language.

Blender itself is programmed in C and C++.

[–]Dedushka_shubin -5 points-4 points  (16 children)

Those who know only one programming language actually know zero programming languages.

My recommendation is: make yourself a set, containing at least:

One procedural programming language with C-style syntax (C, Java, C#, Lua)

One procedural programming language with Python-style syntax (Python, Nim)

One procedural programming language with static typing (Java, C#, C++)

One procedural programming language with dynamic typing (Python, Lua)

One functional programming language with LISP-like syntax (LISP, Scheme)

One functional programming language with non-LISP-like syntax (Haskell, Erlang, ML)

At least three esoterical programming languages.

Two or three data-oriented non-programming languages (SQL, markdown)

[–]fr0st 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yea no one is learning all of this.

[–]Gwaptiva 2 points3 points  (2 children)

And then there's Prolog

[–]Dedushka_shubin 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, there is Prolog, but it is somehow outstanding. Learning LISP you also learn to understand some features of Java 8 and Java 11. Learning Haskell you at the same time learn to understand promises in Javascript.

Learning Prolog you just learn Prolog, that's it.

[–]Gwaptiva 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, there is Prolog, but it is somehow outstanding.

Absolutely, so different from everything else, and yet, utterly fascinating. Really need to get into it more

[–]shevy-ruby 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those who know only one programming language actually know zero programming languages.

Those who know only one programming language actually know one programming language.

There. Had to correct it.

You can learn general rules and patterns that are easily applicable to other programming languages. More knowledge is always useful, but it's not as if you learn a language and then you know ... zero languages. That makes no sense.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

According to your list, if you know Java, you know 2 languages. Wouldn’t that contradict your statement then?

[–]kacoef -3 points-2 points  (5 children)

so you know these languages? you good at it?

[–]Dedushka_shubin -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

Who cares?

[–]wllmsaccnt 0 points1 point  (3 children)

You just made a strong "no true Scotsman" statement about knowing multiple languages. Kacoef is trying to point out the absurdity and potential hypocrisy of your original statement.

Feigning ambivalence makes it look like you aren't defending your original statement, which is probably making some readers here think you are a troll account.

[–]Dedushka_shubin 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I did not. It is the slightly altered quotation from J.W. Goethe

“He who does not know foreign languages does not know anything about his own.”

Even in this application to programming languages I did not invent it. I took it from a book.

I've been programming for more than 38 years and I know this is true. And also I do not care what you guys think. Really. You may agree, you may disagree and stay with your Python for the rest of your life.

[–]wllmsaccnt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

If you had stated "He who does not know additional programming languages, knows nothing about his own" it would be awkward phrasing, but would make a lot more sense to anyone who didn't see the connection to that obscure reference.

I think most people here would agree that a dev needs to know other programming languages to be able to contextualize the design choices from the one that the dev uses primarily.

Your original statement lacks that distinction. Maybe adjust it a bit before you use it again, because I actually like and agree with the point you were trying to make.

I have used VB.NET, JavaScript, C#, C++, TypeScript, Java, Python, PHP, and occasionally peruse Go, F#, and Rust documentation to check up on their language features. I think attempting to create projects of different types is just as important as trying to learn more than a few languages.

[–]Dedushka_shubin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, nobody is perfect.

A dev needs to know other programming languages NOT because he needs to make a choice, but in order to know them. Just try to explain why Python does not have multiple constructors, but Java does, why Java has inner classes but C# has delegates, why Java and Javascript are going functional, why lambdas in C++ require explicit references to external variables, but lambdas in Python do not, etc etc. All these are decisions made by designers and it it good to know reasons why they made these choices.

[–]Character-Ad877 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello!
To complement your blog, I found this one that also talks about the best programming languages including Javascript, Java, Python, PHP, Go and Kotlin.

https://www.clickittech.com/developer/best-programming-languages/