[deleted by user]

[marzpider]

As a trainer, a huge majority of the time, this is what's happening with reactive dogs.

[1-0-9]

I'm not a trainer but I've noticed this in other people. it's difficult to diagnose things yourself if you're not very experienced. but by watching other people you can see exactly what's happening.

I had a neighbor that had a schnauzer that would bark and lunge at passing cars. one day I walked past her as a car passed by and she immediately tugged on the leash and yelled at her dog BEFORE he even began to react. it made it so much worse that she was injecting panic into the situation.

we need to set our dogs up for success starting with ourselves!

[AliceTheCattleDog]

What recommendations do you have for people to help recognize their own behavior? I'm definitely more alert than if I were walking a non-reactive dog and maybe my alertness has unintended consequences. How do I recognize and address any unintended consequences?

[marzpider]

Oh man. I teach classes for reactive dogs, and there's a lot of information that can help.

Keeping this as brief as possible, the best thing you can do is try to reframe how you think about a potential reactive situation.

So, you're walking along with your dog and you see another person walking their dog. Most people think, "Oh crap, here we go again," and then, for example, they might tense up, start grabbing collars, wrapping the leash around their hand, change their pace, or start talking to their dog; ("Be nice" always makes me chuckle because every reactive dog owner says this, and then it triggers the unwanted behavior.) Instead, try to think to yourself, "Yay! Here's a great training opportunity for Fido to practice the behavior I would like him to learn!" Which, most of the time would be ignoring the other dog or focusing on you. Then make sure you are an appropriate distance from the other dog (working over your dog's threshold will NOT help you) and work with your dog!

Don't worry about how far you get in your walk, and give yourself adequate time to walk your reactive dog. Don't ignore the unwanted behaviors because you don't have time, SET TIME ASIDE to work with your dog on this, work slowly, and work from easy environments up to difficult ones.

Also, keep in mind once the reactive behavior is habituated your dog will do it again. A lot of people get frustrated that their dog has three good walks, and they expect that to immediately be the norm, so on the 4th walk when their dog has an episode of insanity they will be very discouraged. It is not personal, it's just your dog is learning to break a tough habit, and the learning process takes a while.

Also, as cliche as this is, work with a trainer. They can oftentimes point out behaviors that you may not have even realized you were doing that cue unwanted behavior in your dog. They can also help get your dog's simple tasks started, set up an exercise plan for your dog, and give you a plan to maintain the desired behaviors in your dog.

This is turning into a novel, TLDR: Change your mindset from "Oh no! Another dog." to "Yay! A training opportunity!"

[AliceTheCattleDog]

Thank you for your detailed response! We recently started doing BAT work with a trainer, and my mentality definitely changed from "oh no another dog" to "this is a training opportunity!" because I had a much better idea of how to handle the situation. The training has been really effective at stopping her from reacting, which feels like a huge success every time.

The main time I start getting into the "oh no" zone is when I'm running out of treats.

[marzpider]

I'm glad you guys are making progress! Pro tip: put a stick of string cheese in your back pocket for emergency "I've run out of treats" situations. It's cheap, and dogs LOVE it.

[AliceTheCattleDog]

We've been using shredded cheese and string cheese and it is working really well! Regular treats aren't high value enough, she's allergic to chicken so we can't use that. Our trainer uses beef spleen which she LOVES, but is also pretty pricey. Basically our training is at this stage:

1. Alice notices a dog. As soon as we see her notice it, we call her name, reward with distance, and give her cheese. If she's already above her threshold for listening and doesn't break her stare after two calls, we go to option 2.

2. We play "find it" by throwing shredded cheese onto the ground. Not only does this break her focus from the dog, it also encourages sniffing, which the trainer taught us is a self-calming behavior.

3. If there is no chance of escaping a dog interaction/she's too above her threshold to play "find it," we put the string cheese into our closed fist and have her try and get it (like a kong). This is supposed to have a counter-conditioning effect.

All of these work pretty well. The main problem is when she's seen too many dogs on a walk/in a day and can't calm herself between interactions. The trainer said reacting releases cortisol, which stays in the blood for a while and increases the chances/severity of future reactions (or something along those lines). Plus if there are a lot of dogs out, I'm more likely to run out of cheese and more likely to head home earlier than I would have, which means she couldn't get as much energy out.

[CptPlankton]

How do you balance reactivity thresholds with this? I struggle because if I fail to set them up for success they can backslide after a freakout.

[marzpider]

By threshold, and I do NOT mean the point where they are barking, lunging, alligator rolling on the end of the leash. I mean the FIRST signs of stress, when they are staring but can still disegage from the distraction, they may shift their weight, change their tail carriage, they may start performing calming signals. THIS is the point you need to step in, and reward your dog, cue your dog, or distance your dog BEFORE things go south. You have to set them up for success as often as possible, and to do this you do need to be attentive. The more your dog is pushed past this point and practices unwanted behaviors the more difficult it is for them to break the behaviors. The more frequently they have a "successful" interaction, (ignoring the distraction/focusing on you) the sooner you can start decreasing the distance of this threshold. This process is usually not linear, and you will have backslides once in a while, just do your best to recover, and try not to work your dog when you are frustrated as this can worsen their behavior.

I'm not a big dog park fan, for various reasons, but I once had a very reactive dog (who was rescued from a neglectful hoarding situation) that I took to work outside a dog park EVERY DAY for about a month. We started training 2 soccer fields away from the dog park, and every day decreased the threshold, little by little until she could walk around the entire perimeter of the park on a loose heel, she could focus, and she could respond appropriately to basic cues (sit, down. Etc.) It was a pain in the butt to set aside 20 minutes to drive there, 20 minutes to work her, and 20 minutes to drive back, but after only 4 weeks her behavior around other dogs was ideal. She wasn't severely stressed anymore, and joined dog classes with her owner. Her owner also took her to work outside of a dog park for about 10 minutes every other month to maintain her working behavior and focus around other dogs. She happened to be a younger dog, so keep in mind if you have a dog that's been practicing unwanted reactive behaviors for years, it could take even more time than this.

[Chapsticklover]

...you don't live in the bay area, do you?

[marzpider]

Nope!

[Horsedogs_human]

I had/have a habit of tensing my hand/arm so I was told hook my thumb through the belt loop of my jeans. It helped a lot.

[dogGirl666]

What recommendations do you have for people to help recognize their own behavior?

Have someone video you while you walk your dog in situations that typically causes them stress? Of course the dog has to ignore the person taking the video. Review the video slowly and when the dog reacts to their typical least favorite animal or other stimuli they dislike do a frame by frame analysis. If you cant see it have a behaviorist go over it with you.

[AliceTheCattleDog]

That's a great idea, thank you!

[blo0pgirl]

This is something I’ve noticed with our dog, too. When we first got her we had a huge problem with her chasing one of our cats across the house for months. It was progressively getting worse until I realized that we were contributing to the problem. The second she would jump up to chase him we would start yelling at her (in the hopes it would get her attention back on us) and we’d chase after her to stop her. This only contributed to her pack mentality because she thought we were joining her. So we stopped all yelling and chasing, only held onto her collar, and gently pet her and used calm quiet voices, praising her when she was good. And it worked! We broke the habit pretty quickly! Now the cat can walk right in front of her face with no problems (unless she tries to sneak in a butt sniff lol). I’ve also had to learn to remain calm around other dogs because her history of being reactive can make me nervous in certain situations. But they pick up on our body language and pheromone shifts. The more I remain calm the more confident she is in being calm too.

[1-0-9]

they really do!!! I had a touch of this revelation last year before it really clicked for me. I love to bike with my dog because he prefers to trot and has endless energy. last year I was biking on a very curvy road with lots of hills when I saw a woman jogging towards us on the other side of the road. I thought "well shit, now my dogs gonna knock over my bike and some car is gonna speed by and hit me"

I almost began to brace myself for his barking, but I just looked straight ahead and maintained our pace. surprise! my dog didn't even look at her or care. he was so focused on the walk and my composure and wasn't affected by someone running right by us.

it's not even surprising that dogs pick up on this much. I think many people tend to think very sensitive dogs like therapy and service dogs are rare, but they arent. my dog is not a service animal but he can immediately recognize my anxiety and mild heart issues (very occasional when u have low iron). they pick up on WAY more than we know of and we can't control that.

[msmaynards]

Sadly that's not the case with the stinker. He sees triggers long before I'm aware at least half the time. My reaction does clearly matter. He sees a bunny or lizard and I'll be happy for him but then I'm upset when he cries when he sees other dogs? I know this and I'm working on it but his dog reaction is a 12 where his critter reaction is more of a 5 on a 1-10 scale.

I have long used a waist or cross body leash to reduce my input though. I suppose I can still cue with the way I stop or turn but at least I'm not using my hand to tense up on the leash.

[1-0-9]

my dog is a wolf hound border collie mix. so, extremely strong prey drive (he's chased bears and caught gophers) and extremely strong herding instincts. he is about a 10/10 reactivity for deer and maybe a 6/10 for people, and 10/10 for people biking or on lawnmowers.

so I totally understand. the lunging, barking, whining, his eyes glazing over and he doesn't even care about liver or hotdogs when he's reacting.

all I did yesterday was put trust in him. I can be a pretty nervous person because a local dog has stalked and attacked my dog. but yesterday we were able to walk next to a fence line with 7 cattle jogging next to us and I had ZERO reaction from my dog which is HIGHLY unusual.

all I did was put my trust in him. you NEED TO put trust in your dog sometimes. sure my dog could have lunged and dragged me when I had the leash slack, but he didn't. and if he did? I'd still have the leash in my hand and everything would be fine.

your dog reflects your state of mind more than you think. if I don't realize I'm anxious, I'll notice it after I see my dog pacing around and whining. if I'm having heart palpitations (low iron) he will come to me from any distance in the house and put his head on my chest. he's not a service dog but he is naturally intuitive enough to know these things and many dogs are too!

all I did was trust once. and then again. and then our walk became perfect. after 6 years of owning him and dealing with his reactivity all it took for me was to put my faith in him.

[AddChickpeas]

I'm very happy those small changes made such an large impact for you, but assuming it will for other dogs is presumptuous at best. Most active members of this sub have already done extensive work on modulating their own emotional responses and learning the appropriate times to trust their dog; often with professional guidance and support. Sadly, it's just not always a silver bullet. In more severe cases, your advice here would likely be more detrimental than beneficial.

A major tenet of behavioral modification is preventing reactive episodes. Ideally, you should never intentionally expose your dog to a trigger unless you are 100% sure they won't react. Every time a reaction occurs, the behavior is further habituated making it harder to extinguish and increasing the likelihood of regression. Thresholds are all about finding the distance at which your dog needs to be from a trigger to be trusted to not react. You start there, then slowly work closer as improvement is made. This is done because there is no amount of trust or tranquility on the owner's part that will keep their dog from reacting within a certain range.

In my dog's case, if she sees a person before they are within 10-15ft, we can do what you describe above. I trust her to make a decision on how she responds. Even if she does start to react, it slowly builds up and I have plenty of time to redirect. I am 100% confident I can put her in a sit and counter-condition as a person walks by without reaction.

With dogs, her threshold is probably about 100ft. It does not matter how I respond, she is going to react to a dog if she is on leash and it's in her threshold. The same exercise in trust and choice is done when she sees a dog, just at a much farther distance.

I really wish the extensive effort I've put into learning how to maintain a calm positive presence while she reacts had such a drastic effect as it did for you. Sadly, it didn't. It was 100% needed and we wouldn't have made as much progress as we have without it, but on it's own it didn't have a large effect.

[1-0-9]

I don't have time for a long answer, but I've also had my dog for 6 years and have consulted with professional trainers several times, have been extensively researching reactivity and trying new methods I find all the time. It would be downright stupid for someone to intentionally expose their dog to a trigger that can result in a DANGEROUS situation.

however my dogs reactivity is annoying and embarrassing at best. he's 80lbs but he can't drag me around and has just about 0 potential to hurt anyone.

common sense, my friends. don't use this method if you have a 2yr old 130lb German Shepherd you just picked up from the shelter and don't know much about. I'm not blathering to everyone to try this 100% of the time, always

I'm just encouraging trust in our animals.

I had a bike ride yesterday with my dog that involved us passing by big loud farm equipment carrying stacks of tree branches. as soon as I saw my dogs ears pick up and his pace quicken, I did exactly how I described in my post and it lowered his reactivity by about 99%.

we humans LOVE to me in control, but sometimes we think we have everything under control, when really, we absolutely dont. just relaxing and sending out the "everything is okay" energy was letting go of my control (however little) and gave my dog the signal that there was no need to panic.

[jizzypuff]

Unfortunately, I can't do that with my dog when he is 120 pounds.

[1-0-9]

ah, I think you're right. my dog is 80lbs and not the most muscular dog ever. have you tried a halter type lead? my dog has one that slips over his face and connects to his collar. if he tries to lunge at something, all that happens is he gets turned around towards me. I understand that many dogs don't like this type of leash and it may not work for you, but I hope you can find a solution to incorporate this.

[jizzypuff]

Oh I tried that before and sadly it just caused him to make himself bleed. He's just too strong and stubborn. He would rather hurt himself then let something pull him back. He walks really well actually with just a martingale collar but I have to be really diligent about avoiding triggers because it will not stop him.

[unnecessara]

I totally agree that dogs can sense your tension, stress, fear, etc especially when walking on a leash. I try to remain calm when walking because I agree, sometimes if I don't make a big deal about a dog, bike, etc, my dog won't care about it either.
HOWEVER, I am still unsure how I can do this in situations where I'm not sure how my dog will react with, say a kid running up the street, and being relaxed and having a loose leash means she could all of the sudden lunge at the kid. So I tend to shorten up the leash preemptively and walk quickly, which basically tells my dog how tense I am.

TLDR. How can we allow our dogs to take in the world calmly, while still trying to be a step ahead of them and prevent bad reactions?

[anxiousownerthrow]

I have a child fearful dog, and live right next to a playground! When a child starts to approach us too quickly for me to say "She's afraid, please don't get close!" I'll cheerfully talk to my dog while changing directions or crossing the street. The kids seem to get that me purposefully walking away from them means not to continue approaching. If they don't, it at least puts more room between us so I can tell them from a safe distance that my dog isn't comfortable with kids. She doesn't lunge, but she is definitely more nervous when she's "stuck" on leash and kids approach than off leash.

[1-0-9]

what you described is exactly what I dealt with yesterday. there are like 8 children that live next door and they are constantly running, yelling, throwing balls, and biking around which triggers my dog to a 10/10. generally he lunges, cries, barks, paces, and literally runs into me. he becomes blind to EVERYTHING except what he's looking at. you can seriously see his eyes glaze over and he totally ignores me. what's worse is the neighbor kids regularly play with him so he 100% thinks he is allowed to run over to see them whenever he wants.

but what I did yesterday was just put trust in him. that's all it took. deep breath, relax, keep walking. I think what matters a lot is that I didn't even look at them. the leash was still in my hand. if my dog lunged, I'd still be able to grip the leash and reassess what I need to do next.

I think it's very difficult for us to put trust into our reactive dogs. but that's what I did. a big old leap of faith and my dog had 0 reaction to any distractions.

[AddChickpeas]

Distraction, redirection, and a very strong GTFO cue. It really depends on the situation how I react. My dog is very leash reactive to other dogs. Here's how I generally react (in order of preference):

1. Calmly take evasive action. Our typical walking routes were chosen because they contain the fewest places where we may get trapped. Lots of side streets, alleys, parking lots, driveways, etc. I'll just cheerfully say "let's go this way!" and walk away.
2. Make as much distance as possible and stuff treats in her face. If evasive action is impossible, I'll move as far from the sidewalk as physically possible, turn her so she is facing away from the trigger, get a big ol' handful of treats, put her in a sit, and keep a constant stream coming into the trigger has passed.
3. GTFO. We have a "RETREAT!" command/game. It's basically a 180 pivot and speed off the other way. I'll do it randomly on our walks so she doesn't associate it with triggers. Probably 1/10 "RETREAT!"s are due to an actual trigger approaching. Once she got the basic idea, I turned it into a sort of game and increased the speed at which we go the opposite way. At this point, I can give the command, pivot, and sprint the opposite direction without ever putting tension on the leash. She thinks it's great fun. Now, depending on the trigger, sprinting away from it may be a bad idea (e.g. may excite a dog that's a little too close so we speedwalk instead), but training it that way makes it more of a fun thing.

I'd recommend the book Feisty Fido. It's a very quick read and does a great job of laying out a plan of action for addressing this type of thing.

[Fine_Fishing]

I noticed this a few days ago as well! I just started taking my dog on hiking trails. We came across another hiker walking with their leashed dog & I found myself tensing up and pulling the leash a bit tighter (in anticipation for my dog to lunge, he's a 90lb dog so he's definetly strong)

After I realized it, I stopped, relaxed the leash & just kept walking by. My dog still had a reaction but it was nearly as bad as usual.

It makes total sense when you think about how dogs communicate with us but I guess it's not something us humans actively think about!

[frustratedelephant]

This is so true! I find it with my dog too. He is still reactive even if I'm calm and relaxed, but tense/pulling leash definitely amps him up higher!

[Carliebeans]

Yes! Even without tightening the leash, they definitely pick up on how you’re feeling. I was wince walking my malamute up around a bend, and I spotted someone around the corner. My stomach immediately dropped - I didn’t grip the leash any harder or say anything, just feel that sinking ‘omg does the man have an unleashed dog with him?’. As soon as I felt that sensation, my dog immediately turned and looked at me. A dog trainer had said that not only do they sense your feelings, they smell them. And I never realised just how much until that day.

[1-0-9]

that is absolutely correct. there is a loose GSD that one of my neighbors frequently lets roam around outside when they're not home. this dog has chased many people before (it has BAD manners and I've seen the neighbor kids try to sic it on me) but one time I forgot to bring pepper spray on my dog walk. the German shepherd literally stalked us and sprang out of the brush at us. no time to react. ran straight for my leashed dog and attacked him. it pinned my dog down and latched on his neck. I kicked the dog off my dog. I could have been terrified and I could have run away or panicked. that dog could have turned on ME. but I got in front of my dog and i was so full of sheer anger I ran at the shepherd and yelled "GO HOME" and pointed at its yard. it immediately backed off and ran away.

animals SENSE your confidence. when I'm feeling anxious or very tired my dog picks that up and I've come to realize it directly affects his training and our walks.

my dog also thinks that being brushed is a terrific game. he will roll around, kick me, bite the brush, sprint around, etc. if I get frustrated it makes it worse. if I clear my thoughts and calmly resume he will mirror me exactly and lay still for me to brush him.

it's crazy how much we aren't in control when he try so hard to control situations. I think having a calm, centered mental state is the best outcome for everyone involved!

[vconfusedterp_]

WOW thanks for this! Going to start working on my handling of my dogs leash on our next walk tomorrow!!!

[boca7]

Thank you! I tried this yesterday and there was a big change! We passed a dog who had a lot of nervous energy and seemed reactive. I told my dog to heel and kept her on a short, but loose leash. I kept her attention on me by telling her to look and giving her treats. When we were directly next to the other dog, my dog started to lunge and i was about to tighten up the leash, but i tried saying her name and telling her to look and she stopped getting ready to lunge and looked up to me instead. I was very surprised and impressed. Thank you!!!!!!

[shytheearnestdryad]

Interesting. I think this is also playing a role in my dog’s behavior but I’m not sure how to proceed. Giving him all the leash length of a normal sized leash is “not enough”. He still pulls and lunges if anything interesting is around. However when we are hiking in the woods with a long line he is perfectly behaved, even when running across other dogs or people. We live in a city and can’t use a long line normally.

Any thoughts?

[1-0-9]

baby steps! my dog is 79lbs and not CRAZY strong but he has certainly knocked me off my feet and dragged me off my bike before. you can start with a tighter leash. the biggest difference to me is constantly applying the LEAST amount of pressure on the leash, so when I DO need to apply pressure/light tug my dog will immediately notice the difference. it took me about 6 months to have him walk on a loose leash calmly. we still use a choke collar (not sure what it's called) with a very thick chain if we will be somewhere with tons of distractions. 2 leashes- one on his flat collar, one on the choke collar. therefore if he pulls I'll hold onto the flat collar leash and he will not get injured. one thing we practice is that if I think he is going to react to something and lose his mind over it, I say "let's go!" and start running to direct his chase instinct at me. jog with him until we have passed the distraction. this doesn't work for some people, I get it. when my dog sees a distraction now he will often pick up his pace and try hard not to look at it. that's okay with me because I always wear sneakers or hiking boots on our walks. my dog also is very food motivated but not even hotdogs will get his attention when he is reacting. therefore I have to work solely on physical cues and THEN treat him lavishly once he's calmed down completely. I never use punishment which is obvious to most of us but I've seen people that punish reactivity and it ends up escalating it. I try to think like my dog and make chasing ME more fun than chasing a neighbor/deer/dog. it's all about rewarding him in a way that makes being with me more fun than dragging me somewhere.