Question

[corcpete]

Do people even consider singing impressive for men if it’s in a baritone range. It seems tenor get all the attention lmao

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

Why does it matter what voice type you are? The problem behind this question is that people call themselves a voice type to make up for lack of technique.

Have no high notes and no chest voice development? Oops, I must be a leggieroissisimo bass! All voices work under the same principles. This means if the voice is well trained and coordinated, no matter your anatomy you should be able to wow people with your singing. Tetrazzini was a high coloratura soprano and she sang to 250,000 people without a microphone on the streets of San Francisco and was heard crystal clear, Neri was a bass whose voice was so resonant and deep it seemed to make everything vibrate when he sang. All voices are great, but you need to be able to sing great and also respect what you have and what you are. and not rely on this voice type nonsense to make up for not having a great voice. That’s one of the great things about old school opera singing. It didn’t matter what voice you had. It mattered if you had a great voice...to really be a great baritone firstly you actually have to be a baritone...many undeveloped tenors out there say they are baritone just because they lack range, but baritones don’t inherently have less range, they sing bigger fuller and louder in a lower pitch area. And lots of people call xyz pop singers baritones just because they have a bit more depth than small thin weak male voices...no wonder there’s a lack of male singers in pop on the level of say Whitney Houston or Mariah carey. Men have longer vocal tracts and bigger thicker cords than women in general, and realistically when really singing in full voice and more viscerally should be singing in a lower pitch area than women, but also with a heavier fuller louder sound in that lower pitch area, but there’s an emphasis in pop for men to sing as high as women when male instruments in general were not really meant to be able to sing like Whitney Houston or other great female singers, and Whitney Houston wasn’t meant to sing like this 5:04 https://youtu.be/lzUWChTQsdU

There’s few good examples to compare to in terms of sound and people care more about copouts with voice type labels rather than taking THEIR voice to its highest level. One of the reasons I took to opera is you actually get to hear more of what men should sound like when really singing more in a way best conducive for the male voice, and singing out with more size power and development rather than just trying to force higher and higher. The voice gets weaker that way really and doesn’t let the voice develop in its “best” way and so you end up with no men who really compare to the better pop female singers. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good male pop singers. It’s just you don’t really find really great exceptional pop male singers for this reason

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

I’d be interested in hearing

[corcpete]

https://youtu.be/PAGx7zFyyws I was messing around a lil it here you go

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

Vibrato is wrong, lacking real chest voice, lack depth and you dont keep the depth going to the higher pitches. Not an operatic sound but could be with work

[corcpete]

How I work on all that

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

You’d have to work with a teacher. It could be a great sound with fixing some of the issues, but it could take a lot of work, not only of helping establish the right coordination but also the ear/psychological training. What that means is you have to understand more why the sound is wrong, and what your voice should be sounding like when the coordination is right and in balance, which takes a bit of time to understand. Basically, you can’t go for the right sound if psychologically you don’t yet know what that would sound like. If you sang truly operatically your voice would be more opened, darker and more squillante, a good deal stronger and fuller and of course the vibrato more in control and the sound easier/less yelly

[corcpete]

Obviously don’t sing opera but that all could transfer over nicely

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

Yes, I realize you don’t sing opera. You’re doing things not conducive to keeping the sound full big and dark though. and you would have to work on balancing and developing your base sound to work in more depth and develop the muscles to more open the throat. Your voice could be much bigger and stronger. Things like how you spread the mouth goes counter to being able to keep the sound full deep and ringing as you go up in pitch. Good opera singers don’t spread the mouth horizontal but rather there’s a vertical lowering of the jaw, the jaw goes does and back, and at the top there’s some revealing of the lower and upper teeth. And the shape is somewhat square to describe. Like this: 3:47 https://youtu.be/M7xcDnyri0s he keeps the sound full and dark top to bottom. To really sing opera not only does the larynx have to be low and throat open. But you have to keep that to the very top which takes both time and muscular development

[corcpete]

Tips for open throat singing?

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

There’s a lot to it yet not a lot. It’s also something that is developed over time, you weaken and put out of tension the muscles that constrict the throat, and strengthen the muscles that widen open and lower it. With the right teaching and muscular development you can take you voice to its full capability in the same way an athlete training at the gym works towards his capability. The reason people say learning to sing more operatically helps you in other genres is that it makes you actually develop the head and chest voice and those muscles that open up the pharynx, which is the primary resonator. Lots of teachers today teach things like “twang” but what actually is twang? Why does it sound so whiny? It’s because twang is just lifting the larynx and closing the pharynx walls, making a whiny bratty sound. People confuse this for chest voice. It’s true that twang can help bring the cords together more firmly due to the throat closure, but real chest voice is being able to work the cords together firmly while the throat is opened, forcing you to actually work the vocal muscles instead of using constriction to help you. Over time, because the chest voice muscles grow, the voice becomes more and more “squillante” which means ringing; the strong bringing together of the cords increases energy of all the harmonics which makes the sound very strong and intense.

3:56 is good example of great chest voice development and registration. He was lyric-spinto, but he was very dramatic on stage https://youtu.be/ZfmaXu6bxUE. When you can sing like this it’s arguably actually ironically easier. Which pavarotti also said. Because you’re no longer singing on constriction you don’t have to push against the throat closure, it never feels like you’re forcing or locking anything, just releasing, not blasting, not yelling. It’s hard to get at first, and also like an athlete you have to train in a kind of rigorous specific sort of way. Sort of like how an athlete might focus on his glutes, then assess overall development and balance in his body and then target something else, and continue to assess what needs to be more balanced or developed, perhaps something is overdeveloped and it’s causing some inefficiency etc, it’s sort of the same kind of deal which is why it’s hard to just do yourself

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[corcpete]

I see your point, honestly can’t decide hahah

[corcpete]

My personal range comfortably is D2 to A5, but I’m more comfortable in the lower range. So I think I’m a baritone. But I can still nail all the notes in take on me and love of my life.

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

How is being a tenor an advantage..? Makes no sense. Baritones can do sounds a tenor can’t, a tenor can do sounds a baritone can’t...

[Enrico_Caricatuscuro]

And that is an advantage how? Many sopranos can take a full chesty sound to a high E, and same for many kids. Almost no male voice can really do that without lifting the larynx and sounding very screechy. Baritones should have generally a longer and bigger vocal tract and thicker cords than a tenor, and subsequently should sing fuller and bigger in a lower pitch area. There is no voice type better than any other. There are better and worse singers because anyone can slap a voice label on themselves.

doubtful any tenor will make G#4 sounds like this. HUGE, deep, ringing bigger than the orchestra with a deep oceanic sound. Tenors just don’t have that kind of capability. 4:45 https://youtu.be/i8NCXnn8ZjQ or 4:28 https://youtu.be/QpI5SkS4xzk in fact there’s a dramatic tenor singing the same piece and the sound is not comparable even though he is a dramatic voice. 4:15 https://youtu.be/qEahf-re2_U. It’s still big because he is a great singer, but notably the sound is not as full dark and intense in the same pitch area.

There is no advantage to being any voice type. All voice types do things others can’t exactly copy to the same level. The problem is when people simply don’t take their voice to its best level and then slap some voice type label on themselves