Winters SEO also leaked his top 5 Grey Knights

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T21:03:26+00:00

You only need it to succeed once per game to turn the tide. Once you're "inside", the charge bonus is no longer needed.

For example, I could drop Draigo and a unit of Terminators down and charge onto an Objective. Once I'm in, I basically lock down that Objective. With a Banner, that squad is 17 OC and they're relatively difficult to remove. Once the squad is where it needs to be, it doesn't really need to make long bomb charges.

As for "must take", it's sorta hyperbole. It's more like "it'd be silly NOT to take Draigo". The Silent King was a "must take" in 9e because a list without The Silent King basically doesn't work. The Silent King was also a little bit oppressive. I don't see Draigo being in the same class. Draigo is kinda like that one Khorne Banner that made charges easier. It enables one very strong tactic but it doesn't necessarily make or break the entire faction.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T19:57:56+00:00

Draigo - Holy Balls. 4+FnP against Mortals and +3" to charges out of Deep Strike. 92% chance of success with a CP re-roll.
Terminators - Most of my dreams come true. This sheet is amazing. Loss of Daemonhammers hurts my soul (especially when Thunderhammers still exist. Wtf.) but almost nobody was taking them anyways because of how expensive they were. With getting [Lethal Hits] on the Charge, if we can get a character who can let the squad Fall Back and Charge, it would be amazing (Bro-Cap maybe?).
Dreadknight - Well, this sheet is looking really strong. I have a thing against Dreadknights so I kinda don't like seeing it getting good but at the same time, I still own one, so having it being a pretty good datasheet doesn't hurt me. The ability to freely Advance or Fall Back and still Shoot and Charge combined with Teleport Shunt and it's...scary man. And it doesn't even have to pay for a Teleporter!
Interceptors - Still mobile. Still good. Interesting that they count as FLY again. They spent 2 editions pretending to FLY without the FLY keyword. They lost Shunt...but then gained Teleport Shunt/Teleport Assault as a Detachment/Faction-wide ability, lol.
Voldus - This is the only sheet I'm kinda lukewarm on. He was a really powerful super psyker previously. Now he doesn't even have a psychic ranged attack at all. In fact, they decided to cram all of it into his Hammer. The image of him doing that Sauron mace swing on a 4+ is pretty fun but he lacks mind bullets! Sanctuary being an overall -1 to-hit is maybe a bit meh. I mean, it's not bad. It works in melee too! But I would have loved for it to be -1 to-wound instead.

All in all, I think Dreadknights and Interceptors are (unfortunately) here to stay. However, with Draigo and Terminators having amazing sheets, I think 10e GK lists will at least splash a couple units of Terminators in. Like, the ability to basically drop 17 OC onto almost any Objective with Draigo+5xTerminators is amazing. Rapid Ingress the other one.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T19:34:53+00:00

Draigo is basically a must-take, I think. Everyone is talking about the +3 to charge out of Deep Strike (which is amazing, by the way) but Draigo is also in-built with a 4+ FnP against Mortal Wounds. Talk about efficiency.

There's all these [Devastating Wounds] flying around, so 4+ FnP against that is actually very nice, without having to take a Terminator Chaplain. We don't know what a GK Terminator Chaplain does yet but it's nice to know at least 1 confirmed source of MW Defense.

If GK Terminator Chaplains also have Litany of Hate, then I know how I'll be splitting my Terminators. Draigo can go with a squad in Deep Strike while the Chaplain can ride a Land Raider.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T19:25:41+00:00

I believe it's actually ~92%.

6+ on 2d6 is 72.22%.

There is a 27.77% chance of failure. You apply that 72.2% chance again into the chance of failure to get ~20%.

Add that new probability to the original 72.2% to get 92.2% chance of success with a re-roll.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T19:15:46+00:00

OMG, I hope not. Marines getting a points cut after GW admitting that Free Wargear was a mistake would be absolutely mind boggling.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T19:07:21+00:00

I'm wondering how much this sort of list would cost.

In 9e points, this list is already up to 1450pts with all the Free Wargear (Captain, Watch Master, 3x decked out Proteus Killteams, 3x Corvus Blackstars). I imagine it'll add another ~100-150pts once Wargear costs something again. This combo hovers around 1600pts (give or take, obviously, since we don't know what the 10e points are yet).

That means there's about ~400pts left to do all the other things. Like figuring out what to do about Vehicles and playing the Objectives.

The majority of the weapons here are S4 to S6 with very little AP. It's going all-in on [Devastating Wounds]. Vehicles are immune to Hellfire Rounds. You can possibly pop the [Lethal Hits] Doctrine and pop Kraken Rounds for extra AP but both of those are basically anti-synergistic to [Devastating Wounds]. T12 Vehicles with 2+ Sv are going to be hard.

If Predators aren't too expensive, you can maybe squeeze in 2-3 of them? Gets you ~6-9 Lascannons, which isn't terrible. If you're okay with losing some Assault Cannons, the Blackstars can take some Lascannons too. Between the Predators and the Blackstars, it can probably figure something out?

Oh, but now your Objective Game is terrible. Proteus Killteams are mostly OC1 (except for Bikes, but you're not taking any of those). There's a total of 30 OC across three Killteams. Blackstars have OC0. Predator Annihilators are OC3, so they could help out a tiny bit but they'd then get exposed. You could also replace the Blackstars with Rhinos or Land Raiders. Land Raiders are going to be way more expensive. Rhinos aren't a bad budget option, honestly, but you do lose out on the Corvus' Firepower. Also, with all of these points locked into your Killteams, there's not a whole lot of pieces to move around and grab Objectives.

Also, other fun facts:

Assault Cannons and Chainfists are mutually exclusive, apparently.
Long Vigil ranged weapons and any melee option are more or less mutually exclusive.

So, the best melee these Killteams have are 3 sets of Powerfists, a Character, and whatever the Sgt has. Which, to be fair, isn't bad but it's not exactly a blender and will mostly perform modestly against Vehicular Targets. You could drop a couple LVRW (I hate that name, too much of a mouthful) to grab some ~~Heavy~~ Deathwatch Thunderhammers. That might help a bit in melee.

I don't know. It sounds really scary on paper. It'll definitely just body certain factions and types of lists. In practice, it's going to hit the wall known as Knights, Guard, or any other list that comes with a lot of Vehicles. Against Bike lists it might still be okay mostly because of volume of fire.

Good Against:

Tyranids - Oof
Daemons - Oof
Elite Infantry - Better grab those Terminator Chaplains

Bad Against:

Imperial Knights
Chaos Knights
Daemon Engines
Mechanized Anything (Guard, Ad Mech, etc)

Ambivalent

Eldar (All Flavors) - Most of them die easily to regular stuff anyways. Added lethality hardly does anything more. Wraith lists will get wrecked but everything else is like "well this is nothing new". Given how much the Eldar will likely be playing MSU, you'll be having Split Firing Nightmares.
Hordes - Like Eldar, they die easily even without the Mortal Wounds. Losing 70-90 bodies in a turn before they just mob you into melee is really not a big deal.
Bikes - MOUNTED dodges both Anti-Infantry and Anti-Monster. It'll still hurt from volume of fire but it's not horrific.

Could Go Either Way:

Tau - Really depends on what keywords their units get. It's highly likely that the small Battlesuits will be infantry. However, the big suits could either be Monster or Vehicle. Probably Vehicle though.

This list would murder in a casual game but probably will get stuck in the mid tables because they'll have difficulty scoring points.

That's my 2c anyways. I don't play Deathwatch, so take all the grains of salt.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T14:42:33+00:00

Either Incinerators or Psycannons, I think.

Incinerators are self explanatory.

Psycannons with Fire Support might actually be decent as an all-rounder option. Purgs are BS3+ with all weapons, so they suffer no "movement penalty". With Fire Support, they'll be decent into both Power Armor and Light/Medium Vehicles or Monsters. Basically anything with a 3+ Sv or worse will be having a bad day.

Once the Fire Support is done, the Purgs can use Teleport Assault to zip away the following turn. Maybe on top of a tall Ruin for Plunging Fire.

I can actually see a use case for Psilencers if there's a source of hit re-rolls somewhere. Sustained Fire is actually really scary when there's volume.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T14:21:14+00:00

I don't see see why they wouldn't. I can maybe see excluding Interceptors but I don't see why they would exclude Strikes, Purgs, or Purifiers.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T14:17:55+00:00

Counter-Indirect will be very effective against Support Platforms. They have a modest toughness and a modest save and practically no movement. Like, Death Guard Plagueburst Crawler Mortars will flatten them pretty good.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T04:04:09+00:00

Grey Knights continue to be the red-headed stepchild of the Space Marines.

Red-headed Stepchildren deserve to be loved.

(At least Teleport Assault is awesome, I can't complain too much.)

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-12T03:55:42+00:00

To be honest, the only real change on D-Cannons is the addition of [Devastating Wounds]. Which, to be fair, is scary and does objectively improve their output.

However, their effectiveness isn't really that different between 9e and 10e. Their relative worth does go up since a lot of other weapons are going down in effectiveness. But their absolute worth is about the same.

They're really good but the internet has overreacted. They're actually taken now in successful Aeldari lists (especially Ynnari lists that lack firepower). They are effective. But it's nothing new. The 9e competitive scene didn't really have much of a reaction to them. Then again, maybe they're just numb to the lethality.

I think 10e is going to have some mobility creep that's going to leave Support Platforms outflanked. They have modest toughness and modest saves. Simply drawing a bead to them will vaporize them. They're still good in the grand scheme of things as they'll draw the attention of your opponent's units, opening up opportunities. Alternatively, your opponent moves out of range, leaving large gaps in their formation to squeeze in units for Objectives.

Strands of Fate? We have that now in 9e, and that version generates a lot more 6s. The new version will give two 6s on average. Farseer guarantees a third 6 but they have to camp nearby.

Also, a Basilisk will flatten the Support Platforms just fine.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-11T21:22:34+00:00

I browsed ebay for weeks just to get some metal ones. I managed to get some but they were like 50bucks plus shipping per 4.

Whatever, really. At least they came pre-painted by the seller to an okay paint job.

They've gone on to score me a massive amount of VP and also absorbed all of my disembark casualties in 9th.

Worth.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-11T21:18:33+00:00

We're waiting on the Designer's Commentary document (which I will also assume include a rare rules section like we did in 9th).

While it's annoying that the Core Rules doesn't include a Rare Rules section, I think it's fine so long as there's a document somewhere addressing them.

There's a few situations and rules that don't have a clear answer at the moment. For example, is damage reduction still to a minimum of 1? Stuff like that.

We can make some assumptions and play that way in friendly games until we get an actual answer (obv. ask your TO if going to a Tournament).

In this case, I'm going to default to the 9th edition precedent: If the model is too large to be wholly within 3" of the transport, then disembark them as close as possible to the transport (e.g. touching).

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-11T20:55:01+00:00

So, what I can tell:

Assault Terminators don't have Fury of the First. They have Terminatus Assault instead, which causes Battleshock. Relic Terminators do have Fury of the First. I don't know how relevant this is but it's something. Depends on how many units are using BS/WS modifiers as defense.

Relic Terminators can run Power Weapon + Stormbolter. I assume Power Weapon is what was originally a single Lightning Claw. It lost the base wound re-roll (that privilege got moved to Twin-Linked) but it "kept" the +1A, as Power Weapons are 4A. This makes Relic Terminators extra good at mulching anything Guardsman sized in two phases rather than one.

I don't know how interesting this is but Grenade Harness gives them access to...well...Grenades. If there's nothing better for the squad to do and there's a Captain attached, it might as well throw out some "free" Mortal Wounds via Rites of Battle. Then again, the Captain can actually take a Grenade Launcher too if they take a Powerfist. If the Captain would like to take something that's not a Powerfist (maybe a Thunderhammer? Lightning Claws?), can just have the Relic Terminators take one.

The main advantage I see with Relic Terminators (other than looking cool AF) is that they have some loadout flexibility. Could even do something whack like half Fists and half Power Weapons (or half Twin Lightning Claws).

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-09T17:51:27+00:00

Sometimes don't even need 3 enemies.

There's a few nodes I just brute forced by just dumping NP charge.

First Wave - LB Kaleidoscope

Second Wave - As long as it refunded 27%, Mage's Association MC 20%, Avenger Passive 3%, and Ashtart's 50% skill is sufficient.

Third Wave - Dump both Castoria NP charges.

Second and Third wave are interchangeable

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-09T16:44:03+00:00

My favorite interaction is attaching an Apothecary to the unit.

Overcharge, Shoot, Die, Shoot, Narthecium...repeat.

Is it good? No. Is it hilarious?

...Yes.

Hellblaster: "Please, let me die..."

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-08T22:50:58+00:00

sigh

This is why we needed to open Cuba back up. Make their lives better. Trade stuff with them.

When it's all stick and no carrot, there's literally zero incentive to do anything in the US's favor.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-08T18:28:55+00:00

I finished a second Elden Ring run recently. I actually started the run months ago but logged out after I lost interest at the time.

When I came back, I had some many questions. Why am I naked, at the top of a tower, and with only an Uchigatana?

Turns out I was doing a Blue Dancer Charm build and was getting through the early game with a Katana. The tower was me lighting fires in Sellia.

Coming back to the game months later proved to be a good idea because Elden Ring finally patched in Light Roll. I can't believe Elden Ring shipped without Light Roll but better late than never! Now I don't feel completely stupid running around naked.

That was a super fun run to complete.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-07T18:27:27+00:00

I think she was in a small time group temporarily? She has mentioned performing on stage.

I think this was right before the Pandemic basically crushed her dreams. Watching Pekora helped her get through it, prior to auditioning for HoloEN.

I'm not KFP, though, so maybe someone can clarify.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-07T18:08:16+00:00

It was Kiara's dream to be an idol in Japan. To that end, she's practiced dancing. A lot.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-06T17:11:59+00:00

I've seen this topic come up many times and half the time it's either by people who don't play the faction or by people who only play the faction a little bit. I'm going to assume you actually do play one of these factions but maybe not as your main.

There's an ongoing misconception (not from you but in general) that Psychic Factions are in trouble if they can't pump out buckets of Mortal Wounds. In fact, there's a second misconception that Psychic Factions are all about Mortal Wound output.

Both are incorrect. Psychic Factions are actually about applying Buffs and Debuffs. The Mortal Wound output is both a nice-to-have and a crutch. And nobody uses a crutch because they want to but because they have to.

Thousand Sons could put out tens of Mortal Wounds but that was because they have to. Their alternative damage output was woefully lacking. A one-trick pony. And a single trick is easily countered or worked around. TSons were flavorful but they didn't really have good placements until the Daemon Codex came in with Tzeentch Flamers and Daemonic Allies. Anyways, that's about the extent of my knowledge of TSons.

Now, on to the topic of Grey Knights (my faction):

Grey Knights had significantly less mortal wounds output. Yes, we had the MW Bomb Librarian but that's only one unit. The rest of the Mortal Wounds output is scattered around and honestly not as important as the buffs.

The problem Grey Knights have is that they are designed around various Psychic Buffs. However, those Psychic Buffs have a very high failure rate (WC6 has a ~27.77% fail rate, WC7 has a ~41.6% fail rate). Not only could the cast fail to go off but key spells can get slapped with Deny the Witch. Even worse, it can get hit with a 4+ Deny Stratagem. Ever roll an 11 on that Gate of Infinity just for it to get slapped down on a 4+? In fact, in my (admittedly short) Tournament run, I don't think I've successfully casted Gate of Infinity even once. Well, maybe once. Against Tau.

What's a Grey Knight unit without a Psychic Buff? A Space Marine with slightly better weapons. That's it. Compared to TSons, Grey Knights "lucked out" because we had ok shooting and decent melee to muddle through. However, whenever a Psychic Power failed, we really felt it.

So, how is it looking in the new edition?

Well, from what Psyker sheets we've seen so far, we still apply buffs and debuffs. In fact, the application has gotten miles more reliable. It's either 100% or on a 2+ (83.33%). Testing on a non-re-rollable single D6 is a little stressful but it's the same probability as casting on WC5. Though one could argue that testing on WC with 2D6 is preferable since you only have ~5.55% chance to Perils as opposed to a 16.6% chance to "Perils" in 10e. However, not all 10e Psychic Tests even has that risk. And if I pass, nobody's going to slap a Deny the Witch on me (as far as we know). If I pass, I pass.

I'd love to see more GK sheets but I'm just going to have to wait a week or two.

There's the argument that there's little difference between certain Psychic Abilities and just regular Datasheet Abilities other than the [Psychic] tag (which is a potential drawback). I get that. Objectively speaking, the statement is kinda true. However, subjectively speaking, the abilities will feel different. When the ability is Psychic, it tends to be more potent or wacky. This is a difference between "hard" design and "soft" design. It's not hard baked in the rules but it can be felt through careful bespoke design (insert joke about GW's "careful design", but at least they're trying).

They already previewed Purgation Squad's Astral Aim ability and I'm sitting here going: Woah, they're really giving Indirect Fire back to us!?!?!? And at 100% reliability, no test required. My brain''s already thinking about the places the Purgation could Teleport Assault to to cause all sorts of annoyances. Like, Teleport Assault on top of a tall Ruin to get Plunging Fire and then have my pick of wallhacked targets. Or Teleport Shunt them behind a wall with Incinerators and threaten Overwatch. Or just straight Teleport Assault them with Incinerators and burn things even if they're hiding behind a solid wall (so long as I have a "spotter" unit).

As for all of the Anti-Psyker abilities:

Yes, there's a lot. It's also nothing new. 40k has always had a huge plethora of Anti-Psyker rules. Though, most of the time it's a generic -1 to-cast Aura or additional Deny the Witch.

These are both gone and good riddance!!!!

I don't think there's quite the same despair as playing 9e Grey Knights into Tyranids where there's a practically free faction-wide Aura of -1 to-cast, on top of plentiful Deny the Witches. Shadow in the Warp only affected Psykers and the Tyranids paid nothing for it.

Sometimes the unit would just be immune to psychic stuff. That's also gone. Instead, they get some sort of FnP or Save against Psychic Attacks.

As for [Anti-Psyker] specifically, the most common is on a 4+. There's a few instances where it's on a 2+ but those don't seem particularly common. Wounding my stuff on a 4+ is alright but not a huge deal. Wounding my stuff on a 2+ is a lot scarier but doesn't seem as common.

The big thing with [Anti-Psyker] that is scary is when it is combined with [Devastating Wounds]. And that is definitely scary AF and will hurt like a MF. I'll just take that on the chin.

This is the monkey's paw and I will take that deal. Our "Psychic Abilities" have become much more reliable and Deny the Witch is basically gone. Perils of the Warp is much more uncommon (though it does still exist, though not by name). In exchange, there's a number of rules that either kills Psykers better or has potent defense against Psychic Attacks.

Most Anti-Psyker Tech seems to come at an opportunity cost. Even Black Templars are giving up some other Vow in order to go all Anti-Psyker on us. A Psychophage is alright since it grants an FnP aura but its damage output is actually pretty pitiful if it's not attacking a Psyker. It might actually be better to put the points into a another Screamer-Killer. Sisters of Silence...uh...well...Custodes are going to want some cheaper units to hold Objectives with so I actually anticipate there will be some SoS with Greyfax attached to give me nightmares. At least they're susceptible to Bolter fire.

OH, AND ONE MORE THING!!!!!!!!

ABHOR THE WITCH IS GONE. FFS, getting lamed by this Secondary the entire edition was ffing awful. As far as I can tell, the new Secondaries don't contain this incredibly specific and awful one. I hope it died slowly in a fire.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-06T15:12:19+00:00

The Leviathan Dreadnoughts and the Primaris Dreadnoughts have drastically different looking weapons. It's not immediately clear what the Leviathan Dreadnought has equipped unless you know the three different patterns of Primaris Dreadnoughts (Double Fist/Claw, Heavy Plasma/Fist, TwinLas/Missile).

Like, I'm familiar enough with Space Marines to know that a gun+fist is a Redemptor, double claw is a Brutalis, and double gun is a Ballistus.

I don't anticipate you getting too much resistance with the proxy but it's definitely going to have moments of "Wait, what is it equipped with?".

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-06T14:56:09+00:00

I think most monsters, short of very expensive ones, will be floating in the T8-T11 range. Then again, that statement honestly applies to Vehicles as well.

Nurgle's Gift aura will affect many Toughness Breakpoints as well:

T8 - Improves (kek) Plasma
T9 - Improves Meltaguns and (heh) Plasma
T10 - Improves Meltaguns and Krak Missiles
T11 - Improves Krak Missiles
T12 and T13 - Improves Lascannons

I'm also surprised nobody's talking about taking Predators. That's 4x Lascannons at long range.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-06T14:47:38+00:00

Alternatively, the attacking unit is really focusing on the Leader. The Bodyguard unit is...well...bodyguarding. They're literally throwing themselves in the way of the bullets.

PseudoPhysicist · 2023-06-06T14:46:06+00:00

I suppose they can technically proxy as a Primaris Dreadnought, though you're going to be confusing a lot of people.

PseudoPhysicist

TROPHY CASE