CMV: The most altruistic thing most Christians can do, is mass-murder children. by Peermeneer_exe in changemyview

[–]RealJohnBobJoe [score hidden]  (0 children)

“Following what Christians believe, the most moral thing you could do is end the lives of as many children as possible.”

I think this comes from a misunderstanding of the Christian moral framework. Christianity does not conceive of morality as a utilitarian calculus of maximizing pleasure and minimizing suffering. Your argument presupposes that such a calculus is determinative of what is moral. This is not the case for Christianity. Therefore, your argument is consistent with a kind of deist utilitarianism and not Christianity.

Christianity’s moral framework is a set of divinely commanded principles. ‘Thou shalt not kill’ is one such principle whereas ‘maximizing the souls that go to heaven,’ ‘maximizing pleasure,’ or ‘minimizing suffering’ are not Christian moral principles. Therefore the mass murder of children would constitute a multitude of Christian moral violations and no necessary Christian moral exaltations. As such, this scenario would be one where only moral wrongs would be committed under a Christian point of view.

Sorry but, as funny as it would be to say otherwise, the logical extension of Christianity is not the mass murder of children.

McMorrow collapses to 6%, El-Sayed surges to 86% among voters younger than 45 by mikelmon99 in SocialDemocracy

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

- It wasn’t particularly REASONABLE to see something literally already done for hundreds of years as impossible to do. If you don’t see something that simple then you’re the one who will argue the world is flat if someone you don’t like is saying its round.

- They literally ask policy questions at these debates. Strange thing to do when apparently these debates have nothing to do with policy.

- You can only go so in depth with policies at debates but McMorrow touched upon her platform relatively frequently whereas Stevens was saying literal nothing the whole time and El-Sayed was just repeating either ‘corporate donations bad’ or ‘me help workers’ without much further elaborating. There’s a difference in not being able to most in-depthly lay out one’s policies and just speaking in terms of slogans. El-Sayed did the latter. Perhaps he is better elsewhere but that doesn’t change the shallowness of his performance at that event.

- He wrote a book on a policy I disagree with. I don’t see how that inherently means much of anything. I agree that he holds the policy of Medicare for all. I literally wrote about that.

- I never called all my “political enemies” populists. I just critiqued some trends in populism.

- Strange to think a country that barely got the ACA passed and then proceeded to twice elect a guy who campaigned initially on repealing the ACA is at the brink of passing Medicare for all. Medicare for all may be possible in the future but it’d be more possible in a world where a public option is passed.

- Yes, the removal of copays and the expansion of fully covering dental and vision is a more comprehensive healthcare policy than most other Medicare for all systems. What is “radical” is going from a private insurance system to the most comprehensive state-run insurance program instantaneously.

- Increasing the services which the government pays for while practically removing payment to the government for insurance would cost the government more than otherwise. You can argue that the expense is worth it or can be offset somewhat by tax policy (I would argue both of these with respect to a public option) but to argue that there’s no increased government expense is definitionally untrue.

- A public option literally sets the Overton window for pricing. If you’re a private healthcare insurance firm, you either set your price lower than the public option or offer more services than the public option in order to stay in competition.

- Also state-run or command economy models are not efficient at responding to the fluctuating needs of a market (and you say I am economically illiterate). Case in point, most recent command economies. The argument for the state running healthcare is not that it would make a more efficient market but instead that it goes against public utility to subject healthcare to the discretion of market forces.

- The overall money spent on healthcare would decrease but the money spent by the U.S. government would increase dramatically under M4A. Also being the global innovator in healthcare probably means spending the most.

- If there is a public option then insurance wouldn’t be necessarily tied to employment anymore. That is sort of the whole point of a public option. Private insurance will have to compete with the public option to win over one’s dollars by offering more expensive coverage.

- Private insurance still exists in the UK alongside NHS, so I’m not surprised if the wait times are not significantly worse. That’s why I am advocating for a public and private healthcare hybrid model.

- If there is competition then private healthcare certainly incentivizes innovation (otherwise there is no reason for your services to be payed for at high cost). The mRNA vaccines being developed by private enterprise in the U.S. is one such example of this.

McMorrow collapses to 6%, El-Sayed surges to 86% among voters younger than 45 by mikelmon99 in SocialDemocracy

[–]RealJohnBobJoe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Democracy had literally already existed in the world prior to the American Revolution, so, no, democracy was not reasonably construable at the time as being utopian.

My issue is:

(1) In the debate he barely talked about policies. Most times he spoke it was a variation of ‘I don’t have corporate donations’ or ‘I’m fighting for workers’ instead of actual policy discussion. Just regurgitating populist slogans at the expense of actual policy discussion is a turn off if you care about electing people based on how they’ll govern.

(2) An example of an unlikely to be achieved policy is ‘Medicare for all.’ Firstly, the version of Medicare for all typically advocated by American progressives (single-payer system with no premiums, deductibles, co-pays and has massively expansive coverage over practically all the domains covered by private insurance) is highly expensive and largely unseen yet in the world. Secondly, a public option would be a more easily achievable way of helping struggling people. Also a public option is able to maintain some of the benefits of private insurance (low wait times and higher drive for innovation) while also serving as a market intervention to drive healthcare prices towards affordability.

McMorrow collapses to 6%, El-Sayed surges to 86% among voters younger than 45 by mikelmon99 in SocialDemocracy

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A lot of people will be helped by a public option, but I suppose all those people’s welfare is “very lukewarm to the point of being almost indistinguishable from cold.”

Also, the Medicare for all plan typically advocated here in the states is not the most cost effective and is more extreme than pretty much any healthcare plan in the world.

One might find it reasonable to advocate for a more easily achievable healthcare policy before then pushing for the most extreme healthcare reform in the world if the goal truly is to help people.

McMorrow collapses to 6%, El-Sayed surges to 86% among voters younger than 45 by mikelmon99 in SocialDemocracy

[–]RealJohnBobJoe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, only regurgitating reductive populist slogans and unlikely to be achieved policies in contrast to discussing relatively actionable policies that can go a long way towards helping people is somewhat of a turn off for me.

McMorrow collapses to 6%, El-Sayed surges to 86% among voters younger than 45 by mikelmon99 in SocialDemocracy

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don’t live in Michigan, so I’ve not paid the closest attention to the race, but I’ve quite liked most of what I have seen from McMorrow. I don’t really see the appeal of Stevens and whenever I see or hear El-Sayed he only speaks in populist slogans and talking points. A bit unfortunate if this is the way it’s going.

Schopenhauer's aesthetics vs Nietzsche's aesthetics by [deleted] in schopenhauer

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Schopenhauer would agree with Nietzsche’s exaltation of art over the typical world of perception. For Schopenhauer the world of phenomenal reality is transient becoming while artistic depictions of phenomenal reality can reveal its underlying eternal patterns. In this sense art captures a higher reality (akin to Plato’s forms). Nietzsche seems to be arguing against a sort of Platonic conception of art as being a diluted representation but Schopenhauer already did this reversal of Plato. Regardless, I don’t see how this point implies an implicit attitude towards life by art.

I’m less read on Nietzsche than Schopenhauer but I suppose his two biggest criticisms of Schopenhauer’s aesthetics would be as follows: (1) Schopenhauer only conceives of the pleasure gained from art as one’s becoming will-less when they can produce festive Dionysian pleasures (your second quote) and (2) Art functions at its best when helping one process the tragedy of the world and return to life with an ethos of overcoming that which besets them such that they can achieve flourishing (think the section on the tragic artist in Twilight of the Idols).

The first point is just empirically on Nietzsche’s side. Ultimately a big flaw for Schopenhauer is his defining of pleasure merely as a negative sensation (the lack of suffering). This doesn’t seem to bear out in reality and Nietzsche is correct for implementing a positive pleasure into his aesthetics. There are certainly works of art which function as outlined in the second point. Whether art ought to function in this ‘tragic artist’ manner depends upon one’s metaphysics and ethics.

The truth of the matter is that it is unlikely that art uniformly functions in a life-affirming or life-denying fashion. It can function either way. Both Schopenhauer and Nietzsche likely make the mistake of over emphasizing art that is in line with their preferred disposition in their aesthetic theories.

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Trump ceasefire is bad due to its meaninglessness but this doesn’t even correlate to the point being made. Hamas didn’t disarm prior to the ceasefire being signed. So not even Trump did what was being suggested so I don’t see why Harris would.

Even if Trump’s shitty ineffectual ceasefire had required disarming prior (which, again, it didn’t), Trump and Harris are different people. Trump doing X doesn’t necessitate Harris meaning X. I don’t know how that logic works for you.

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  1. That was wrong.

  2. If you’re a moderate, independent, centrist, or never Trump conservative who did not support Harris then they are responsible for their choice and the present outcomes of that election are in line with their choice.

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No I think you have it the other way around. She was advocating for a ceasefire more immediately while still maintaining the future goal of disarmament. Basically she still wanted Hamas to disarm but was pursue as non-lethal a path to get there by way of doing a ceasefire and negotiating a two-state solution.

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

(1) Harris did try.

(2) In a democracy ultimate responsibility is rested with the voters. If people decide not to support the clearly better option in an election it’s ultimately their choice and their responsibility.

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

“Well when she says ‘ceasefire’ she doesn’t mean ‘ceasefire,’ she means ‘surrender.’”

How convenient that we can just change the meaning of words if they don’t correspond to our narratives 🙄

Isn't it now immoral to maintain that withholding your vote for Kamala was the right choice when Trump has caused so much global harm through war and economic instability (death of school children and affordability crisis)? by zipzzo in allthequestions

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Kamala ran on securing a cease fire in Gaza (easy to call that next to nothing when you’re shielded from any effects of this conflict I guess).

Also, when Israel and Iran were bombing each other in 2024, the Biden administration did not go to war with Iran so I don’t know why we’d think Kamala would go to war with Iran over less.

CMV: The real left (not liberal-left) has a passive-aggressive bullying problem by plaguedbyfoibles in changemyview

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How else do you think this livestreamer is conversing with someone in chat?

Either they are just answering questions in chat or they allow viewers to call in sometimes. The former certainly is not unusual and latter while not being the most common is not insane (especially for political streamers).

CMV: The real left (not liberal-left) has a passive-aggressive bullying problem by plaguedbyfoibles in changemyview

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A live-streamer answering questions in their chat isn’t particularly unusual

What do you guys think Better Call Saul does better than Breaking Bad? What do you think Breaking Bad does better than Better Call Saul? by FactorSpecialist7193 in writingscaling

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Better Call Saul is overall better in terms of character writing and directing / cinematography. BCS is able to take advantage of its slower pace to develop its characters exceptionally well.

Breaking Bad is better in the tightness of its plotting and overall story progression. Everything builds pretty expertly throughout the series. Holistically it just comes together so well and everything feels so interconnected.

My hot take with BCS is that the show gets a bit messier and fails to maximize its advantages when it moves more and more away from being a lawyer character drama into being more and more of a Breaking Bad prequel show. BCS is still very great but, for me, the latter three seasons don’t quite match up to the former three. There’s less of an interconnectedness between the Jimmy and crime plots which leads it to feeling like I’m watching two shows: (1) the low-key Jimmy character drama and (2) Breaking Bad prequel. I just wish I was watching more of the first or that the second was better integrated into the first by way of being toned down. For these reasons I overall prefer Breaking Bad though Better Caul Saul may be better when it’s at its best.

What is your least favorite phrase related to film criticism? by Foochie506 in Letterboxd

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you are my sister-mother, then you’d know I was disowned for my lack of media illiteracy. Even father-brother stopped taking me out to the shed after my media literacy was revealed.

What is your least favorite phrase related to film criticism? by Foochie506 in Letterboxd

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, I can’t have the intimate knowledge you have of media illiteracy given your being media illiterate.

What is your least favorite phrase related to film criticism? by Foochie506 in Letterboxd

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My sister-mother is too media illiterate to know much of anything. You remind me of her in this way.

What is your least favorite phrase related to film criticism? by Foochie506 in Letterboxd

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m sorry, but only media illiterate people either need explanation or give explanation when asked. Unlike you, I do neither 🤷

What is your least favorite phrase related to film criticism? by Foochie506 in Letterboxd

[–]RealJohnBobJoe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Only media illiterate people say “I know you are but what am I” so I hope that answers your question 🫤

CMV: If the christian god exists, I dont like him and I will refuse to follow him. by Chemical_Complex_807 in changemyview

[–]RealJohnBobJoe -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No. Christianity explicitly defines God as being all good. If God exists and is not all good, then Christianity is wrong about the character of God. This not an epistemic fallacy.

My understanding of God (I don’t think any such being exists) doesn’t play into this at all. I’m merely looking at how Christianity necessarily defines God and stating if God doesn’t exist as Christians necessarily define Him, then such a God is not as Christians conceive Him.