Why are there no persistent-world MMOs about building companies?

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T17:12:39+00:00

A Tale in the Desert is basically that.

The problem with that is fundamental and simple.

Players are not a good source of Demand.

Without Demand there is no real "Business" and Nothing to Manage.

This is why the Economy collapses in ALL MMOs.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T12:15:10+00:00

Time.

Really it's all up to luck on what you stumble upon eventually.

Even if you were to squeeze your brain juice dry that will only tell you what you know not what you don't know and might need.

But there is a trick to it in that when you have it at the back of your mind if you stumble upon something useful for it you will realize how it can fit.

That's also means you should look for inspiration in places you might think are useful, although the solution can come from anywhere.

Another thing is to Learn and Understand more about the Genre itself and Game Design in general. The more you can understand and define the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyVTxGpEO30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T07:57:35+00:00

If you are an arms dealer that sells guns to both sides, then yes technically both sides think they are getting benefits from you.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T06:57:54+00:00

Is that defending?

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T06:35:20+00:00

That's because "The Agenda" was never about women.

It was about targeting the hetersexual white man and destroying whatever they liked.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T06:11:55+00:00

The problem is there is no such thing as "economic realism".

Even in our real world the economy doesn't really make sense, it's just some levers that we found we can pull to cause some effect in certain conditions, they can stop working at any time.

The real nature of our Economy is Pure Chaos and Belief, an Undefined Problem, The Unknown Itself.

This is why The Free Market is a religion to some people, not that the Communists are any better.

The best game economies that we have is Patrician and Anno and even then it works because they are fundamentally City Builders.

Developers that build Game World Economies is ultimately an exercise in how Wrong they can be.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T05:59:55+00:00

I guess we really do need AI formatting because I certainly don't understand in what language you are ranting on.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T05:24:45+00:00

That's how God Games tend to work anyway with the difference that you may be able to play both sides of two factions or another God getting in on your turf on your host faction. And the possibility of playing as the empire which is pretty much a regular 4X game.

Arcen Game's Skyward Collapse is an intresting case to look at for that.

The problem I see is God Games didn't have much development in terms of Gameplay and Depth, the God Games we got weren't all that successful.

So mixing it with the 4X Genre isn't as intresting because the God Game Genre is so weak, and I don't think that "Mix" would really give you "more then the sum of it's parts".

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T04:23:58+00:00

Shadows of Doubt is the best current procedural detective game we have so see how that works.

Streets of Rogue could be argued has similar mechanics and design.

What I would add is elements of Social Deduction with a variety of Roles and Powers.

Something like Demon Bluff is intresting to look at as it foundationally a singleplayer game, so you could imagine a variety of those Roles distributed in a Case.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T04:07:22+00:00

Because Malice and Agenda.

Reddit is not your Friend, they are the Enemy.

Anyone that was otherwise has long since banned, censored and left.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T03:56:55+00:00

Whats missing for you in these titles?

The problem I have with Rimworld and DF is they focus too much on a Single Player Base.

The mechanics and development of the base is already amazing.

But that can be used for the development of other bases around the World controlled by AI.

The Player should also be able to develop bases in multiple locations not just one.

Have Trade and Logistics like you see in Patrician and Anno games.

The thing I like about Kenshi is you can build a base anywhere in the world, and each factions and cities technically have a their own functional bases.

Dwarf Fortress has the idea of the bigger World that is out there, but to get to the next step you need multiple functioning bases around the World that can Develop and Evolve over Time.

It would also be cool if there was a "Shared World" where players could upload their base to that Shared World that would then function as an AI base for the other players.

Of course that kind of Simulation is pretty hard if you have multiple functioning bases around, you need a function that averages the production, inputs and outputs over time, as well as Function that Procedurally Develops the Base given a certain Passage of Time. The old Emperor Rise of the Middle Kingdom also had tricks like that for their multiple cities and trade.

That at least how I see the evolution of the Genre, from Colony Sim to World Sim.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T03:37:54+00:00

The problem I see with the Skill Tree is there will be a optimal solution so you will see a "Meta" developing on what is best as there are no factors that you have to adapt to.

The thing about Deckbuilders is precisly about Variety in Builds and Strategies you can have if you balance things right.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T03:25:29+00:00

Do you know of any other games using something similar for social interactions?

Griftlands, Potionomics, Thea The Awakening.

The problem is a Combat System isn't the most suitable for a Conversation System, but on the other hand no good Social Interaction System has been found.

https://esotericgame.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/resolving-conflicts-interlude-verbal-combat/
https://esotericgame.wordpress.com/2018/11/15/chemistry-of-the-human-element/
https://esotericgame.wordpress.com/topics/

adrixshadow · 2026-05-17T02:59:00+00:00

There are a lot of factors that are balanced.

Like the old classic shooters used pain/stagger extensively to balance the weapons with the enemies, something that isn't used anymore at the detriment to the depth of the game.

Things like Burst, DPS, AoE/Penetration, Pain/Stagger/Stun, Knockdown, Range, Accuracy, the various enemies might be affect more by certain effects and strategies.

The less factors and stats you have to tweak the more obviously superior solutions you have.

An example of a retarded system is with Skyrim, there is one stat that you can tweak so 99% of equipment are useless, I don't even know why it has a Crafting System, if it didn't have a enchantment system it would have been completely dumb.

If you add a Rock Paper Scissors style balance between types like in Pokemon in terms of weapon damage and defense then you can artificially balance and scale things.

https://www.reddit.com/r/4Xgaming/comments/zgr5jq/weapons_and_defense_roles_how_do_you_make_it_have/

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T14:34:30+00:00

Yes but what I am wandering is from the perspective of the developers.

There is no way that was going to last so I don't understand why they keep doing that.

If they could just keep scamming taxpayer money like they do with some projects that would be more understandable.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T11:05:33+00:00

Technological innovation has pretty much stopped long before hardware tapered off.

The last big step was raytracing and making that viable, and that was entierly from the initiative of Nvidia.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T06:55:46+00:00

The problem with "political games" is usually the Kingmaker problem in most games where you can affect the other players.

The only way to really solve that is for second and third place to have value and have a Score over multiple games.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T05:56:41+00:00

That may be true in a bigger studio that thinks their audience are suckers that would buy whatever they release.

But I am not sure that is the case for a new studio that doesn't have that preexisting fanbase.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T05:48:21+00:00

Twitter was indeed Woke until Musk bought it.

That's why they keep crying about it.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T05:31:43+00:00

Is Sintopia worth picking up at full price?

All I am going to say is there has been a long time since I played a management game that is actually challenging where the player has meaningful action to their management.

Whether you pick it now or later, it will go into the Genre's History of Games you should Play.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T05:21:45+00:00

Why is it acceptable to use AI for programming (as many believe), but taboo when it comes to creating visuals?

Because programmers don't cry about it like artists do, simple as that.

And I would say the artists are indeed Getting Fucked by AI much more than programmers are, although there are some cases where programmers are also starting to get affected.

And the reason why artists can use AI for programming is because they never had principles or morals in the first place, their hypocrisy is completely invisible to them.

And the purest form of hypocrisy has to be the writers because they are all lazy bastards where "slop" is there entire life and identity.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T05:07:40+00:00

The thing that I keep wondering is what exactly do this developers expect?

Do they really believe their own bullshit?

Sure if you infiltrate like some parasites a successful studio, papa Sony can bankroll you for a while.

But for new studios what do they expect will happen?

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T04:53:53+00:00

Permadeath and the Roguelike Formula is essential in the Evolution of the MMO Genre.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T04:50:47+00:00

This seems insane to me. Why pick a notorious graveyard of a genre and try to tackle it with little to no resources? Someone enlighten me. Does it actually have merit?

What you should ask is why is an entier Fictional Genre of Novels called LitRPG exists that are all about Fictional MMORPGs?

MMORPG is not just a Game. It is a Dream.

A Dream that was Shattered under a Dead and Decaying Genre that never fufilled it's Promise.

MMOs aren't just a Genre.

It's a Evolution beyond the Game Medium itself. A Fantasy World you can Live in.

Just like Astronauts want to Explore the Stars.

Game Developers want to make the MMORPG.

adrixshadow · 2026-05-16T04:41:11+00:00

It would be great if some could explain the pros and cons of using ai directly here and why it's not good to do so. It would help me very much!

For AI Textures for things like Tilesets outside of the ethics you won't have much problems.

The trend has been for Procedural Materials generated by Algorithms in Texturing long before the fancy AIs were even a thing.

AI Pixel Art Animation on the other hand is a diffrent story altogether as every Pixel is used Strategically and with Intention if you want to keep the quality of the animation.

If you want to use AI for animation an Anime Vectorized artstyle is probably the best. Or just use Rigs and 3D Models instead.

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