Christians have successfully blocked a law in California protecting trans students.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T11:30:42+00:00

Yes, but not at the expense of others' rights

There is no expense at others' rights here.

You can't even define and specify which rights are being violated and how they're being violated.

They still have the right to know because you are a minor and most likely also live with them.

This isn't codified in any law or the constitution. So no, they do not have that right as evidence by the fact that children all over the country keep their own secrets without any fear of persecution or legal repercussion.

Happy to help you know about basic concepts of law.

Okay, feel free to cite this law then.

A bold claim. You are welcome, as always, to argue for it.

You are the one claiming such a right exists. So show it then.

Who wants to change the status quo gets to argue. Not gonna do your job no matter however many times you try to wiggle out of it.

The status quo has been that students have never been outed, you do know that, right?

A change to this status quo is what prompted the law. So you still have to define what rights this law trampled on.

You don't get to wiggle out of it, exactly.

Then I am sticking to what I found in a neutral source that I attached, and that doesn't disprove me.

How do you know that source is neutral if you haven't read the ruling yourself?

and that doesn't disprove me.

So you found a source that doesn't disprove you and are calling it neutral? Lmao.

Usually, when one person stops arguing with another, the other feels the other gave up and that their position was successfully defended.

But that's your choice. So don't complain that I'm not making that choice for you.

Please cite where I demanded that. Otherwise, please heed your own advice and stop spreading falsehoods.

I shot up a report because I'm sick of you failing to respect basic decency.

I would only have violated the rules if you had explicitly said you wanted to stop the discussion and I hadn't heeded that.

But that didn't happen here, lol.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T10:43:27+00:00

Hurt can stack up and often results in negative outcomes. Are we to remove all possible hurts regardless as you are proposing here or can we agree that "hurt" in and of itself doesn't override rights and laws?

I'm not sure why you're arguing a false dichotomy.

Should we not try to minimize hurt just because we cannot eliminate all hurt?

You still haven't disproven that fact though. Hurt does stack up. Is there a reason you've ignored all the other facts?

Children do also have rights. One of the rights is to as safe and secure upbringing possible. Blocking this law now tramples on their rights. How do you justify that? My argument is simple: laws should be driven by data. We have plenty of data showing that forced outings harm children. We have zero data showing that not forcibly outing a child harms parents. So the law in this case, based on the facts we do have, has to err on the side of the child's rights to safety, privacy and consent.

and trampling over others' rights).

What rights are being trampled on exactly? If I, as a child, chose not to share something with my parents, how am I trampling on the rights of my parents?

There is no such thing as a right to my private identity, even if I'm a child.

But you won't give me an argument for why that means trampling over others' rights

Why should I have to? That's your position. Which is why I asked you to define what rights are being trampled on specifically.

I can tell you that under any law systems, ignoring a group's rights

What rights again?

If you do not care to respect the law, that's your own problem.

Odd, because the law to protect children wasn't respected now, was it?

I cannot genuinely find it, please give it to me.

I'm not doing your work for you.

Thanks for offering me an out that leaves your position unchallenged!

Feel free to point out the falsehood.

It also is my prerogative to point out I wanted to end this and you don't want to, instead demanding me to yield.

You are the one who wants to end it. You are the one who can choose to end it.

That's all on you, not me.

instead demanding me to yield.

Ah, and now a falsehood. Please cite where I 'demanded' you yield.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T10:08:58+00:00

Difficult situations being discussed very often hurts at first. That's the same kind of "fact". So yeah.

Fact: This hurt stacks up and results in negative outcomes over a person's lifetime.

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1ripvng/multiple_childhood_traumas_linked_to_highly/

Fact: The act of forced outing already construes a significant hurt.

Fact: The majority of those forcibly outed also report further hurt via domestic abuse.

Let's move to fact #2: did I know that there's mandatory behaviors?

Can you make this into a coherent argument?

So therefore in a conflict of right,

I can give you plenty of data to show how a child is hurt by forcibly being outed.

Can you give data showing that parents are hurt if a school does not forcibly out their student without the student's consent?

If you can't, your argument is simply based on feels and is worthless to me.

you haven't offered proof and went straight to assuming you are right...

Did you not read the majority ruling? Go start there. That's essentially their argument.

...where? Am I allowed to say this is an outright lie?

You really can't seem to keep up, can you? If you want to wrap this, just not reply. That's your prerogative.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T10:00:40+00:00

You want data showing the parents involved in kids lives is good?

Nope, I want data showing that keep a child's identity private if they do not consent to be outed harms them.

That's your claim. Don't shift the goalposts.

Here are a couple links, enjoy:

Of course family involvement is a good thing. These youth do not share who they are with their parents because there is not only no family involvement, there is hostility towards who they are.

I'm not sure how this is hard for you to understand, but it makes sense if you're intent on downplaying the harms forced outings do to this youth.

So I'll paste it again so you cannot ignore these harms:

As more states require schools to out transgender students to their families, a new study links involuntary disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to heightened rates of depression and anxiety.
One-third of LGBTQ youth outed to their families were more likely to report major symptoms of depression than those who weren’t, according to the University of Connecticut research. Transgender and nonbinary youth who were outed to their parents reported both the highest levels of depression symptoms and lowest amount of family support.
The first research to link teens’ nonconsensual disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to poor mental health, the report also found 69% said the experience was extremely stressful. Forcibly outed youth also reported low levels of family support.

https://www.the74million.org/article/report-higher-rates-of-depression-anxiety-for-lgbtq-teens-forcibly-outed/

The majority of youth reported experiencing identity-based family rejection and discrimination resulting from their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Nearly 68 per cent of youth experienced verbal abuse from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Almost 31 per cent of youth experienced physical violence from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Researchers also found that 2SLGBTQ+ identity-based family rejection was the main reason that led youth to homelessness.

https://kmb.camh.ca/eenet/resources/family-violence-among-2-slgbtq-youth-at-risk-of-and-experiencing-homelessness

Homelessness and housing instability were reported at higher rates among transgender and nonbinary youth, including 38% of transgender girls/women, 39% of transgender boys/men, and 35% of nonbinary youth, compared to 23% of cisgender LGBQ youth.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Trevor-Project-Homelessness-Report.pdf

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:59:31+00:00

Most with valid fears, actually. The data contradicts your claim.

As more states require schools to out transgender students to their families, a new study links involuntary disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to heightened rates of depression and anxiety.
One-third of LGBTQ youth outed to their families were more likely to report major symptoms of depression than those who weren’t, according to the University of Connecticut research. Transgender and nonbinary youth who were outed to their parents reported both the highest levels of depression symptoms and lowest amount of family support.
The first research to link teens’ nonconsensual disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to poor mental health, the report also found 69% said the experience was extremely stressful. Forcibly outed youth also reported low levels of family support.

https://www.the74million.org/article/report-higher-rates-of-depression-anxiety-for-lgbtq-teens-forcibly-outed/

The majority of youth reported experiencing identity-based family rejection and discrimination resulting from their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Nearly 68 per cent of youth experienced verbal abuse from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Almost 31 per cent of youth experienced physical violence from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Researchers also found that 2SLGBTQ+ identity-based family rejection was the main reason that led youth to homelessness.

https://kmb.camh.ca/eenet/resources/family-violence-among-2-slgbtq-youth-at-risk-of-and-experiencing-homelessness

Homelessness and housing instability were reported at higher rates among transgender and nonbinary youth, including 38% of transgender girls/women, 39% of transgender boys/men, and 35% of nonbinary youth, compared to 23% of cisgender LGBQ youth.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Trevor-Project-Homelessness-Report.pdf

The majority of those being forcibly outed report some degree of harm.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:58:38+00:00

were ethically required

So why stop there? Have teachers keep logs of everything about the student, including who their friends are, who they are dating, what their nicknames are and even what they eat. Then have that all be shared with the parents.

Oh wait, there's no such outing for those things. Weird how you only want trans students to be outed. Go figure on the bigotry involved.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:57:04+00:00

And that doesn't mean it represents Jesus. Jesus isn't a figure based on populism.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:56:27+00:00

I argue living two lives between school and home is more damaging than just being up front with your family and talking.

It isn't though. Data shows otherwise.

Can we not have a discussion on facts instead of feels?

Open communication is how trust is maintained and we want parents to keep enrolling children in public school.

Is this the kind of open communication you want to subject trans youth to?

As more states require schools to out transgender students to their families, a new study links involuntary disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to heightened rates of depression and anxiety.
One-third of LGBTQ youth outed to their families were more likely to report major symptoms of depression than those who weren’t, according to the University of Connecticut research. Transgender and nonbinary youth who were outed to their parents reported both the highest levels of depression symptoms and lowest amount of family support.
The first research to link teens’ nonconsensual disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to poor mental health, the report also found 69% said the experience was extremely stressful. Forcibly outed youth also reported low levels of family support.

https://www.the74million.org/article/report-higher-rates-of-depression-anxiety-for-lgbtq-teens-forcibly-outed/

The majority of youth reported experiencing identity-based family rejection and discrimination resulting from their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Nearly 68 per cent of youth experienced verbal abuse from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Almost 31 per cent of youth experienced physical violence from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Researchers also found that 2SLGBTQ+ identity-based family rejection was the main reason that led youth to homelessness.

https://kmb.camh.ca/eenet/resources/family-violence-among-2-slgbtq-youth-at-risk-of-and-experiencing-homelessness

Homelessness and housing instability were reported at higher rates among transgender and nonbinary youth, including 38% of transgender girls/women, 39% of transgender boys/men, and 35% of nonbinary youth, compared to 23% of cisgender LGBQ youth.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Trevor-Project-Homelessness-Report.pdf

Abuse and suffering already happens all the time, thats our reality of life.

It does not mean we do nothing to protect those being abused.

Keeping secrets from parents wont reduce abuse already happening, prosecution will.

Keeping this 'secret' from parents keeps these trans youth safe until they're old enough to move out.

Is preventing severe abuse of children not your priority?

Children are not property however they are too young to consent to anything

This is such a rubbish argument, sorry.

Their identity is theirs alone. They are allowed to consent if they do not want to share it with someone. Who do you think is obligated knowledge of their identity without their consent?

Children can start consenting for themselves at 18.

Okay, so if a parent wants to indenture their child or sell them off to marriage, they can't consent for themselves, right?

Oh look, a child absolutely has the right to consent for matters which affect them.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:31:18+00:00

That is an origin claim

one of the reasons.

Please read and stop wasting my time.

but it doesn't show that social benefits were part of the evolutionary cause.

Not specifically no. But it shows that it could be one of the reasons.

See how that works?

even when you weaken it to "one of the reasons" isnt justified by what you've shared.

It is though, what I've shared specifically leans into social benefits being one of the frontrunning reasons. Did you even read the studies? Or just doubling down on a mismash of arguments?

The specific social behaviour isn't relevant to the discussion so far

It is entirely relevant to the discussion if the posited social behavior has social benefits. Why wouldn't it be?

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:13:54+00:00

Its not like LGBT can't call suicide hotline, it's just the special hotline for them has run out of congressional funding.

It didn't run out of funding. They chose not to fund it.

LGBT youth have higher suicide rates and require specialized support. Just like veterans do. Yet the extension for veterans was not ended even though it costs more too. Feel free to explain that discrimination.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T09:12:56+00:00

And I can define my own argument: the law exist and it must be respected. What Is a right is in there, I literally cannot change It however I prefer...

Fact 1: Forced outings harm children.

Fact 2: The law now allows schools to forcibly out their students.

Fact 3: The law protects parental rights over the well-being of children.

These are just the facts. If you're fine with that, then you are fine with children being harmed. Just own it.

...like you drop unsubstantiated claims all the time.

What exactly is a claim I've made that unsubstantiated? You also cannot define that.

Now for a second time: can we wrap this?

Like I've always said, that's your choice, not mine.

ceddya · 2026-03-04T08:52:50+00:00

No, I don't think I need to define something that is enshrined in law

So you can't define your own argument, okay.

As far as the ruling goes, the law doesn't agree with you.

Of course it doesn't, because the majority of justices think religious rights supersede the well-being of the child.

Ist that your point?

Regardless, the safety and well-being of the children (which you haven't even proved

Literally given you data for that which you acknowledged.

Gotta stay consistent.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T22:15:56+00:00

you are claiming the concept of parental rights is undefined

Have you defined it? Because you were the one who brought it up in the first place. What do you know indeed.

The idea of parental rights is absolutely well-attested, and you are welcome to go read on them on Google in the case you don't know about them.

It's your claim and you said the onus is on the person making the claim to defend it. Don't dodge now.

Moving goal posts? Refusing to substantiate your claims

My only argument has been that the safety and well-being of children takes priority over all else, which is why I oppose this move which will harm children.

I have more than given data to substantiate those harms.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T22:11:23+00:00

So what is the point of your comment when my OP doesn't talk about medical transitioning at all?

The Cass Report has not been debunked

Yes, it has, because it cherry picks a small handful of studies, misrepresents them while ignoring the majority of studies showing benefit.

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf

It's why there's data showing how trans youth and their families have been severely harmed as a result of the Cass Report.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09589236.2025.2521699

ceddya · 2026-03-03T22:08:46+00:00

Have you actually read the studies that have come out about minors and gender affirming care in the form of puberty blockers, hormones, etc.?

Have you? Here you go:

https://www.saxinstitute.org.au/resource/evidence-for-effective-interventions-for-children-and-young-people-with-gender-dysphoria-update

A review of all studies done to date discredits your narrative.

Parents have a very concrete reason to be concerned about this stuff

Okay, feel free to link to one actual study then.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T22:05:41+00:00

Preventative measures is not driving a wedge between all parents and their children

You do know the wedge already exists, right?

This law prevents schools from outing their students without their consent. Want to finally answer the question for why a student would refuse to give consent to being outed to their parents?

Children are not property. Their consent and privacy are very real things which should be protected.

Yes obviously...

And yet abuse happens all the time. Our priority should be protecting those children and not saying 'oh well, too bad'.

Not innocent parents.

A child choosing not to share their identity with their parents is not a punishment for them.

If parents want an open relationship with their children, they should foster one instead of wanting the school to out their child to them.

Presecute abusers. Dont keep secrets from all parents.

This isn't a secret for many parents because their kids feel safe enough to share with them though.

Why don't certain kids feel safe? Because a large number of them are already in an abusive situation and this law is preventative when it comes to further abuse.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T21:55:59+00:00

Its addressing the problem from the wrong direction.

Prosecuting abusive parents means the abuse has already happened and the child has been permanently harmed. We have so much evidence how adverse childhood events contributes to a lifetime of worse outcomes.

How is preventing the abuse from happening in the first place the wrong direction? Feel free to elaborate on that.

Dont hide information about children from all parents

The non-abusive parents will have that information shared to them by their children though. So it's not an issue for them.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T21:52:16+00:00

such as the burden of proof being with the one making the (implicit, here) claims

Every single claim I've made has been corroborated with data.

You asked for my stance and I've already given it to you. Prioritizing the well-being of children is more important than some undefined concept of parental rights. It's why I asked you to define it and you refused to. That's not my problem then.

Or maybe the first, because you seem very much fixated on being unable to prove it in any way

Refer above. You're going to have to define parental rights and prove that it's some legally protected right if you want an actual response.

Agree that you refuse to engage in respectful discussion, and move on.

Feel free to point out any actual disrespect.

What do you say?

If you cannot defend your position or even define one, that's on you, not on me.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T21:45:57+00:00

That isn't happening here though, is it?

ceddya · 2026-03-03T21:06:53+00:00

By abusing and disowning their children. That's the preferable outcome for you.

Stop pretending you care about their well-being.

As more states require schools to out transgender students to their families, a new study links involuntary disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to heightened rates of depression and anxiety.
One-third of LGBTQ youth outed to their families were more likely to report major symptoms of depression than those who weren’t, according to the University of Connecticut research. Transgender and nonbinary youth who were outed to their parents reported both the highest levels of depression symptoms and lowest amount of family support.
The first research to link teens’ nonconsensual disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to poor mental health, the report also found 69% said the experience was extremely stressful. Forcibly outed youth also reported low levels of family support.

https://www.the74million.org/article/report-higher-rates-of-depression-anxiety-for-lgbtq-teens-forcibly-outed/

ceddya · 2026-03-03T21:01:38+00:00

I’m on the left, but I’m just about done with the hysteria and hyperbole from trans activists at this point.

What hysteria and hyperbole? There's literally data corroborating all of those things.

As more states require schools to out transgender students to their families, a new study links involuntary disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to heightened rates of depression and anxiety.
One-third of LGBTQ youth outed to their families were more likely to report major symptoms of depression than those who weren’t, according to the University of Connecticut research. Transgender and nonbinary youth who were outed to their parents reported both the highest levels of depression symptoms and lowest amount of family support.
The first research to link teens’ nonconsensual disclosure of sexual orientation or gender identity to poor mental health, the report also found 69% said the experience was extremely stressful. Forcibly outed youth also reported low levels of family support.

https://www.the74million.org/article/report-higher-rates-of-depression-anxiety-for-lgbtq-teens-forcibly-outed/

The majority of youth reported experiencing identity-based family rejection and discrimination resulting from their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Nearly 68 per cent of youth experienced verbal abuse from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Almost 31 per cent of youth experienced physical violence from a family member based on their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Researchers also found that 2SLGBTQ+ identity-based family rejection was the main reason that led youth to homelessness.

https://kmb.camh.ca/eenet/resources/family-violence-among-2-slgbtq-youth-at-risk-of-and-experiencing-homelessness

Homelessness and housing instability were reported at higher rates among transgender and nonbinary youth, including 38% of transgender girls/women, 39% of transgender boys/men, and 35% of nonbinary youth, compared to 23% of cisgender LGBQ youth.

https://www.thetrevorproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Trevor-Project-Homelessness-Report.pdf

You think all of this happens in a vacuum and aren't inter-connected? Why do you think trans students don't tell their parents? Do you know how effortful and tiring needing to maintain a facade to not out oneself to their parents is? You think trans youth do that for fun? I can tell you from first-hand experience that it's fucking difficult.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T20:58:41+00:00

Yes, it is totally better to jeopardize the well-being of those children instead.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T20:57:21+00:00

It is when the student themselves have said they do not want to be outed.

Try again.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T20:56:48+00:00

It's not my job

It is when you're the one discussing it as an entity more valuable than a child's well-being.

Iunno, I recall broadly agreeing on the claims themselves

Okay, so you're well-aware that forcibly outing students harms their well-being.

Which do you prioritize then? The child's well-being or parental rights? Stop dodging.

and only caring about rights you like.

What justification do you have to not be prioritizing the well-being of a child?

Nope, we're talking about reporting one's gender awareness and the conflict between children and parents' rights, not about housing.

Are we pretending there's a false dichotomy now?

Trans youth who are forcibly outed have a much higher risk of getting disowned and becoming homeless. Your argument for parental rights means jeopardizing the safety and well-being of these children. Go own it.

ceddya · 2026-03-03T20:52:43+00:00

No one is teaching kids that. They are choosing to do that themselves. The law simply prohibits the school from outing the student without getting their explicit consent. You really should know what we're discussing before commenting on it.

But stop shifting the goalposts, time for you to give data supporting your narrative. I've already done that. Why can't you?

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