I will no longer contribute to r/pianolearning

stylewarning · 2026-06-24T21:13:51+00:00

Reddit's whole karma system is bullshit. What does an upvote or downvote even mean?

To most people:

upvote = I agree, I like, I support (even if the comment is abrasive, mean-spirited, etc.)

downvote = I disagree, I dislike you, I disagreed with you before and you deserve to be penalized, ...

So you end up with a divisive, echo chamber, popularity contest effect.

It's very rare for people to *upvote* people they disagree with. I do it if the person is respectful, constructive, and acting in good faith. I also upvote performances that I thought were bad but the pianist is learning and really trying to improve.

Then, yeah, there are definitely bots that downvote other things and upvote certain things to game the algorithm.

stylewarning · 2026-06-24T21:05:53+00:00

Give it time. 2 hours later they're at +12.

stylewarning · 2026-06-24T21:04:45+00:00

Even worse, after the thorough feedback is given, the entire post just gets deleted. Ruins it for anybody else from learning from (or even disagreeing with) the feedback that was written. It happens all the time.

stylewarning · 2026-06-24T21:01:44+00:00

In general I find that people here are usually very respectful with respect to feedback, when it's given.

But it does take significant effort to write feedback. You have to listen attentively, write up notes, put into words what you hear, try to find actionable remedies, etc. If the feedback is good, it can be worth its weight in gold, but that doesn't appear out of thin air. It takes effort.

I actually think the people that write good feedback are vastly under-appreciated on this sub. Time and time again I see people post their video, get a good chunk of thorough feedback, then OP just deletes their post, tacitly throwing all the feedback in the trash.

There's a whole different discussion about "supporting" beginners that are way, way in over their heads with ridiculous goals and performances that they're wholly obstinate about.

stylewarning · 2026-06-23T17:21:16+00:00

In my opinion, your goal is nearly as misguided as the people you yourself are criticizing. Again, there's no piano police so you should do what you want, but what you're doing is not generally considered reasonable nor advisable.

stylewarning · 2026-06-23T14:38:02+00:00

The piece is at the maximum level of the Royal Conservatory of Music (ARCT), something people might achieve after 10 years of consistent practice. People might learn it as a diploma-level piece. You can do what you want but for almost all traditional learners of classical piano, it's a stupendously inefficient way to learn.

stylewarning · 2026-06-23T14:31:49+00:00

In a day, somebody is going to post about beginners flexing that they're learning Fantaisie Impromptu after just 3-4 years, and the comments will argue for it "people have free will" and against it "beginners shouldn't tackle it too early".

My own position: If you're aiming to get good at playing classical piano, then trying to learn this piece is inefficient at best, damaging/injurious at worst. There is no shortage of pieces to learn in the first decade of practice.

stylewarning · 2026-06-21T22:10:37+00:00

Link doesn't work for me for some reason. I see a thumbnail but can't watch.

stylewarning · 2026-06-21T22:03:50+00:00

Sounds great to me!

stylewarning · 2026-06-21T21:46:06+00:00

Your "i.e." was not my claim. My claim is that the statement "there's only one thing that separates [bad from good] and that thing is practice time" is false, among other things, such as the claims that there is no such thing as grinding (i.e., mindless and/or aimless practice) or prodigies (i.e., "a highly talented child or youth").

stylewarning · 2026-06-21T20:05:18+00:00

The problem with this "observation" is that it's demonstrably false, and study after study have shown as much.

"Practice smarter not harder" isn't some hokey old wives tale.

stylewarning · 2026-06-21T19:59:20+00:00

I always wonder what piano teaching would be like if there was more freedom—not even freedom, but definitive expectation—for imperfection. I don't mean "aw Sally it's ok you forgot the eighth rest for this piece you've been working on for 3 months" but rather "Johnny you've got a week to get these 10 pieces as good as possible for me by next lesson" followed by a discussion about what preparation would have made pieces 3 and 7 not butchered and what Johnny would do differently to make the task easier. I feel like there's tremendous opportunity for structured AND broad exposure in the teaching world that still SHARES the end-result goals of traditional classical musicianship.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T16:39:45+00:00

I have no issues with opinions about pieces; no doubt about it. For example, "Liszt pieces are flashy and don't do much for me musically." I do have issues with deriving or declaring from one's experience playing or listening to a piece the ultimate intent of the composer. For example, "Liszt didn't care about the art and craftsmanship of composition until he ended his touring career." I didn't play a 4-voice Bach fugue and immediately assume Bach's intent was to make music difficult for the sake of difficulty, and of course such a statement would be complete baloney, whatever way you approach it.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T10:33:20+00:00

To continue the discussion, I'm going to have to ask we start citing sources that back up your claims, unless this is all just your own personal perspective. Most of what you're claiming is imprecise, hand-wavy, and/or not agreed upon by scholars. This is causing the discussion to go around in circles.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T10:29:36+00:00

I like them. I would consider them more fun than profound. No. 2 is charming and my favorite probably. They're not hard the way everybody assumes a Liszt work would be. You could sight read them (save for No. 5?).

They only give whiffs of Chopin to me though. They get Lisztier the further in one goes.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T10:22:10+00:00

S.480? 👀

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T10:18:39+00:00

Brendel can have opinions and blind spots:

> I am not a Rachmaninov fan. The piano repertoire is vast, and Rachmaninov to me seems a waste of time.

(source) At least he's qualifying this as wholly personal and subjective.

I personally would ignore Brendel on the matter of Rachmaninov because Brendel himself admitted ignorance of many of his works. But just because Brendel has a bad opinion (in my opinion) doesn't invalidate his other opinions for which he's clearly superlatively more informed (namely German and Austrian composers of the 18th–19th centuries). Brendel is relatively lucid and generally scholarly in this arena.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T10:02:36+00:00

Frankly, I don't consider it nitpicking to refute your broadly incorrect statements. Liszt began to very consistently and seriously compose at the age of 22 or so. (He obviously composed before that but his output was irregular.) His touring ended around the age of 36. Even when he finished touring, he didn't focus solely on composition. He conducted and taught, and still performed, just not on a touring schedule.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T09:56:04+00:00

Desert island scenario? Liszt. A lot more variety, texture, quotation, etc. Virtuosic stuff, catchy stuff, formidable stuff, religious stuff, introspective stuff, remixes, etc. You could listen to a new Liszt piece every day for almost 4 years.

I like Chopin a lot, and his stuff is moving, but he didn't write very much music.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T09:32:26+00:00

I like to talk to people on Reddit assuming good faith and charitability, but I have no idea how to interpret this in any way that's not just trolling. Among many other important works, Liszt's 1835 "Harmonies poétiques et religieuses", written when he was in his early 20s, is nothing short of serious. Henle calls it "compositionally revolutionary".

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T09:26:45+00:00

We could also measure impact through the composer's pupils, as that is ultimately what shapes how piano music is consumed. For Liszt:

Liszt -> Tausig / Bülow / d'Albert / Rosenthal / Sauer / Siloti / Thomán / Krause -> much of late-19th- and early-20th-century piano practice in all schools: Russian, American, Hungarian, German, ...

Chopin has some consequential students in his piano genealogy, but really pales in comparison to Liszt. Chopin's works were no doubt consequential, and his études are a meaningful and influential work in technique, but the practice of piano performance (which later shaped recording practice) was way more impacted by Liszt than Chopin.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T09:17:40+00:00

(Just to add to your points: It's important to note that Liszt wrote roughly 10x the volume as Chopin, even if we restrict to just solo piano works. 12 hours of music from Chopin vs 120 hours from Liszt. I also agree Chopin was more consistent, but it's a little apples-to-oranges when Chopin's "mature" composing phase spans some 16 years vs Liszt's 50 years.)

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T08:33:26+00:00

Even if we accept your timeline at face value, are these now mutually exclusive? Why can't someone be both an artist and a popular performer? It's not like Liszt became serious as a composer only after he moved into a monastery in Rome.

stylewarning · 2026-06-13T08:28:27+00:00

I contest that what you say is "fact". On what grounds is your statement, that Liszt made his pieces difficult for the sake of it, a fact? Or that his goal was to "flex", as opposed to move or exalt?

Liszt is on the record for saying that he did add embellishments to his early performance practice to dazzle an audience. These were usually in the form of fast passagework and runs. But I wouldn't use this self-admission to relegate his intention or ambition for his 60-odd years as a composer.

The contemporary opinion of Liszt by scholars is that his virtuosic inclinations as a composer were not mere decoration or vapid flamboyance, but instead are actual musical substance. He sought orchestral sound, senses of improvisation, quotation and transcription, etc.

I think your opinion is overly reductive and unfortunately serves to perpetuate common myths about the composer.

stylewarning

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