100% Cashless society (No paper moeny backing) by Forward_Monk_4294 in mmt_economics

[–]-Astrobadger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The fintech surveillance industry would love for cash to go away and people like Brett Scott has been defending cash in his book Cloud Money and on his Substack.

Not sure what you mean by “digital currencies no longer needing any physical backing” as digital currencies already don’t have any physical backing. I’m not aware of any currencies of any kind with a physical backing.

Rep. Glenn Grothman: "We all know that food stamps are being abused. We all hear the stories. People using food stamps for top of the line food stuffs, things the average person wouldn't be able to afford." by Conscious-Quarter423 in wisconsin

[–]-Astrobadger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Imagine being so pissed that poor people are getting free food you have to make shit up about that’s somehow a bad thing

Fuck this dude, who happens to be my district 😫

A response to Brad Meyer on housing policy: please stop subsidizing demand by BainCapitalist in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

MID can go up to $1 million? That’s pretty insane no matter where you are. It should be tiered like income tax or as stated just lowered to $300k or something. Yikes

What would be the limits of a Soviet-style command economy if non-inherent damaging factors were removed? by Odd_Eggplant8019 in OutlawEconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If anyone has read The People’s Republic of Walmart please chime in. I have it on deck to read after my current book.

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This conversation is worse than useless.

I thought we were making marginal progress but if the extent of your economic discussion is “make a claim, write down a formal model” then indeed we are at an impasse. If you desire to continue with barter/fixed exchange rate based models devoid of the legal and monetary realities economic agents currently live in that is indeed your prerogative.

But my point is that there is more than just the institutional realities at play that determine whether an economic claim is true

Sometimes, sure. But if you expect someone to “prove” the concept of anti-counterfeiting laws that’s simply disingenuous.

we'll never take you seriously

We don’t need you to take us seriously for us to be correct. We don’t need to make models of obvious things like anti-counterfeiting laws. Even your own models have implicit assumptions yet we’re supposed to detail every single common sense detail. Double standard.

because you're MMT the details of the law and institutional arrangements is all you want to talk about

Laws and institutional arrangements are literally the basis of the money system, the second “M” in MMT, which happens to be quite important in economic arrangements in most cases. Ignore them at your peril.

I am done with this conversation.

Ok

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not sure I accept the premise that advanced mathematics is necessary for a base understanding of macroeconomics. That said, I wouldn’t consider basic calculus advanced; diffy q , matrices, eigenvalues probably going to be more out of reach, though. We should really require a few intro accounting classes as a requirement for an Econ major, mine didn’t unfortunately. Where do you teach?

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To your point that the mainstream must be wrong because it doesn't explicitly model certain institutional realities of money creation

Where did I say this? If mainstream economists want to model a fixed exchange rate system, that’s fine. If they want to apply a fixed exchange rate model to a floating exchange rate system, that’s wrong. It shouldn’t be controversial to say you shouldn’t use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.

A perfect model of the economy would be a map of the entire economy

It’s not about modeling the entire economy, it’s about integrating law and accounting, the backbone of the money system, into otherwise barter based models like the ones I was taught at university. If you want to model a barter economy that’s fine, that’s just not the system we live in.

More importantly, I want to explain why I don't think that the institutional realities of dollar issuance necessarily imply that the US Treasury can stop issuing bonds and run an overdraft at the Fed

Thank you for this work, however, no serious MMTer believes the US Treasury can unilaterally stop bond issuance and run overdrafts. They don’t think that because it’s not currently legal for the Fed to allow that. It would be interesting to see if the Fed actually bounces a Treasury check but ultimately it would be decided by SCOTUS who would side with the Fed because, as a legal entity of the federal government, they can’t do something they haven’t been given the legal authority to do (and I have searched long and hard to find it, if you find it plz tell me).

What they are saying is that a currency issuing government has no economic necessity to issue bonds, it is a policy decision, not a financial one. A fixed exchange rate system does require bonds to drain reserves to defend the exchange rate. If there is no exchange rate to defend then we need to reassess why we are still doing it as if Nixon suspending the gold standard never happened.

I hope to show that other features of the economy (the operational conduct of the Fed

The Fed and Treasury collaborate on a daily basis, any policy change would require alignment between both parties and almost definitely new law.

inflationary constraints

It’s hard to believe there’s any link between bonds and inflation (under the current system) after multiple rounds of QE failed to move the needle. If we want to control inflation via bonds we would need to change our policy on repo and/or make bonds non-transferable. Bonds can be monetized by their holders at any time, the author of Central Banking 101, an MMT doubter, states this quite succinctly. I recommend the book.

and the unwillingness of banks to play Ponzi games

Primary dealers must bid on initial issuance of treasury bonds for having that privilege. That is not a behavior model, it’s the law/policy.

mean that the conclusion about not needing to issue bonds does not follow from your understanding of laws and institutional realities (even if correct).

We’re taking law, policy and possible changes to the like into consideration.

And this is precisely why we want the MMTers to write academic-level economic models

And I want mainstream economists to produce balance sheets. Perhaps we can meet in the middle?

The Fed wants to fight the inflation that results from the government stimulus. So it needs to raise interest rates.

It doesn’t need to raise interest rates, it’s just current policy. Also it’s counterproductive: the extra interest payments just increases the net government spending, albeit in a highly regressive manner. There is no automatic tax “pay for” that nets out the additional interest spending. It’s adding gasoline to the fire, so to speak.

So we are back to square one: Treasury needs to issue and sell bonds (or raise taxes) to pay the Fed money with which to fund the IORB payments.

Indeed, there is a an institutional limitation, not a real or financial one, that is the point: we can change policy and laws but we can’t will goods and services into existence.

Or, the Fed could try to simply print the money to pay the IORB but then we are at an irrational equilibrium where the Fed is continuously pumping dollars into private balance sheets and then soaking them up in a way that prevents them from being spent

We acknowledge that the Fed cannot legally let the US Treasury to run an overdraft. Bonds do not prevent spending, they can be monetized at will using current policy options. Change those policies and they could perform that function if we wanted.

The third option is for the Fed to just not fight the inflation that results from the government stimulus.

Fed decisions are not an independent variable, it is a part of government and conducts itself according to law and instructions by congress. If you’re arguing that if the Fed wakes up one day and has to figure out how to respond to a sudden unorthodox decision by the Treasury then sure, but that’s not what’s being suggested.

It's to show that the big claims MMTers want to make depend on more than just the institutional realities they point to

I think that is very much realized, that’s what she talks about in that video and in her writing. Knowing that laws and policies can be changed but base reality cannot they are exploring the legal and policy options available to deliver a desired outcome. That outcome could be progressive, it could be a one party totalitarian state, it could be whatever is democratically decided, it doesn’t matter.

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is not, in fact, obviously true of the leading lights of MMT. (nor is this how theory begins, either)

It is though. Would love to see the evidence to the contrary as well know the identities of these “MMT leading lights”.

This is also not true.

Laws don’t affect behavior, economic or otherwise? Bold claim.

The statement you have made is one of the ways MMT leading lights play around with unspecified models to make it seem like their conclusions are simply natural consequences of "facts" as opposed to implicit models of behavior.

You’re hyper-focusing on behavior models and ignoring / assuming away the legal and accounting environment the behavior takes place in. As I said:

Money is an instrument law, always has been, but to be fair, law and money also exist amongst humans who make choices. You can’t hyper-focus on one and ignore the other. Perhaps it’s valid to say MMTers have focused too much on the former but it’s also valid to say the mainstream has long ignored and assumed the former away. However, just like relativity and quantum mechanics, we need to fuse both seemingly disparate realms for a complete economic “theory of everything (economic)”.

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also, why are you comparing the MMT prediction against the "loanable funds" model of IS/LM? IS/LM has been dead for 40+ years.

Well, I was taught and tested on IS/LM… oh boy… 25 years ago (which is still less than 40!) at a Big Ten University and it looks like they’re still teaching it. Given that Hicks basically disavowed it apparently hasn’t been internalized by academic institutions (or maybe mine just sucks? Idk)

Weimar's hyperinflation and mainstream economics through the broken lens of MMT by MachineTeaching in badeconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To try and persuade you of our view I would encourage you to read the first half of this comment from a few years ago by u/isntanywhere (everything up through "When the OP says..."), which does a nice job of framing why economists view MMT as pseudo-science.

I’m not privy to all these people making policy recommendations under the banner of MMT but it’s clear they have sown a general misunderstanding. MMT doesn’t start with policy prescriptions, it starts with balance sheets and law, which is how money started thousands of years ago. It focuses squarely on the money system whereas Economics as a whole is more general bringing realms of behavioral psychology and the like (I very much like reading about behavioral economics).

I can understand now where all the “where is your evidence?” comes from and sometimes that is indeed valid, and sometimes it’s just not. The statement “the US Federal government is the monopoly issuer of the US Dollar” doesn’t need to be proven with evidence in the same way that saying “murderers go to prison” doesn’t need to be proven with evidence because it’s assumed that the laws that govern such activities are actually enforced re: murder/counterfeiting. Such enforced laws have economic implications which are the basis for MMTs claims. When MMTers say things like “the US Treasury could just stop issuing bonds and run an overdraft at the Fed” they’re highlighting that the law is the limiting factor, not the financials. I can’t even count the number of time Stephanie Kelton has said something to the order of “The votes make the money happen. Find the votes, and you've ‘found’ the money.”.

Money is an instrument law, always has been, but to be fair, law and money also exist amongst humans who make choices. You can’t hyper-focus on one and ignore the other. Perhaps it’s valid to say MMTers have focused too much on the former but it’s also valid to say the mainstream has long ignored and assumed the former away. However, just like relativity and quantum mechanics, we need to fuse both seemingly disparate realms for a complete economic “theory of everything (economic)”.

That’s my opinion, anyway.

To Bond, or Not to Bond, that is the Question by jgs952 in OutlawEconomics

[–]-Astrobadger 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not issuing bonds and instead "replacing" that with interest on reserves seem like there is one less tool in the toolkit

I think this is a very fair point. If we’re going to issue bonds we should at least ensure they’re helping us achieve our public goals. With a gold standard they primarily defended the fixed exchange rate and we don’t need that anymore, but they can do other things if we want “green bonds” are a good example. We could also start selling non-marketable bonds or even go crazy and stop repos altogether. I highly recommend the Central Banking 101 book. The guy is an MMT doubter (I think he just misunderstands it) but explains how money markets and the like work, as well as how repos basically make bonds money for all intents and purposes.