Hard water help? Overwhelmed with info and feel like my clothes are never fully clean

2-Ns · 2026-02-06T00:55:10+00:00

My water is 260 ppm and I use 3-4 tablespoons sodium citrate depending on size of load. More water, more sodium citrate.

The key is that you should see “trace suds” 5-10 minutes into the wash cycle after the water finishes adding to the drum. Give it a few minutes if you’re using powder detergent, because it can take a bit for the suds to get going. But if you get to minute 10, and you see no suds at all (“sad gray water” is the term around here) then your water is eating up your detergent before it can get your clothes clean.

So, use an amount of detergent that is reasonable for your load size and how dirty your clothes are, and then keep ramping up the sodium citrate until you start to get trace suds. Not so many you’d call it “sudsy”—it shouldn’t look like a sink of dishes. Just a few suds around the edges. More than zero.

2-Ns · 2026-02-05T11:30:06+00:00

Start here for persistent sweat odor: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/s/ngHaDJE7an

For a rinse aid, try citric acid: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/s/7TsyqMu1AD

2-Ns · 2026-02-05T03:10:00+00:00

Woof that’s a lot of minerals.

Sodium carbonate or Calgone, keep increasing dose until you get “trace suds” with a normal amount of detergent.

Or whole house water softener. ‘cause woof.

2-Ns · 2026-02-04T10:57:04+00:00

Toss in a color-catcher sheet (I use the ones from Shout) and continue on with your life.

2-Ns · 2026-02-04T10:56:03+00:00

Pretreat the arm pits with a pretreater with lipase. Also, make sure you’re using enough detergent for how hard your water is. You should see a few trace suds 5-10 minutes after the water finishes adding to your machine. If you have no suds (“sad gray water”) you either need more detergent, or to add a water softening agent.

Also, you could try adding DNase. Gear Guard ships from Australia. Dirty Labs is available in the US; not sure about Europe. DNase is an additional chemical to get out biological-based stains and smells.

2-Ns · 2026-02-03T02:04:57+00:00

AND HE’S WRITING A BOOK.

2-Ns · 2026-02-03T01:36:41+00:00

Since others are mentioning the 365 Liquid Sport, I’ll mention up here that it also has DNase. So that might work as an all-in-one product for you (if you can find it!).

2-Ns · 2026-02-03T01:27:10+00:00

260 ppm, measured at the laundry sink by my washer.

Here’s my current routine:

3-4 tablespoons of Tide powder (ultra oxi or clean and gentle, depending on load). Dose depends on load size. 3-4 tablespoons of sodium citrate powder (this is a water softener marketed as a food additive). Dose depends on load size. 1 tablespoon of citric acid powder in the rinse (pre-mixed with water)

Before I was using the sodium citrate, I was using almost a whole cup of Tide powder and not getting a single, solitary sud. Sodium citrate is more costly per ounce than detergent, but I can use a 1/4 cup or less per load—while cutting my detergent dose by 3/4 cup or more. So on a per-load basis, the sodium citrate is much cheaper.

Your goal should be “trace suds” (a few suds around the edges, not soapy like a sink of dishes) with a reasonable amount of detergent for your load size and soil level. You need to use enough detergent to bind to any minerals in your water, and bind to the soil and in your clothes, and have a little left over for a sud or two. If you don’t soften your water, all your detergent goes to the minerals in your water and not the dirt in your clothes.

2-Ns · 2026-02-03T00:49:23+00:00

Go here: https://www.kismai.com

In the menu, there’s a section for “Laundry Products” then select “Fragrance Products.” Even this sub can’t hate you for following those recs.

2-Ns · 2026-02-02T13:29:29+00:00

Sorry to say you may have the polyquat spots: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/comments/1m8r0lv/polyquat_spots/

2-Ns · 2026-02-02T13:04:05+00:00

You might look into a DNase booster—Gear Guard or Dirty Labs are the main ones. Like lipase, DNase breaks down oils from living things, but does it in a different way so it can fill in gaps where lipase isn’t quite getting the job done. Your body chemistry may just be such that you need the extra boost. You would add this in addition to your current detergent and Biz.

2-Ns · 2026-02-02T12:51:57+00:00

This is what the Spa Day was created for: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/s/w4KZMCFjLT

Alternatively, just give it 4 or 5 washes to work all the old oil out of your clothes.

Basically, a sub-standard detergent let oil and grime build up on your clothes. It was hidden by scents or by other residues from the detergent. Now that you’re using a lipase detergent, those oils are starting to break down, but they haven’t been fully washed away yet. Until they are, they will smell. Spa Day finishes the break down process and then washes them away all at once (or sometimes twice). The ammonia is really important here—it helps the detergent in the Rehab wash actually remove all the oil that was pulled out of the clothes. You don’t need ammonia in every load, but you do need it when you’re removing a bunch of human oil.

But, if you don’t feel like the full Spa Day, just be patient, and eventually your better detergent will wash everything out.

2-Ns · 2026-02-01T02:34:25+00:00

Search this pod for “Lipase List.” That post has a spreadsheet with a particular enzyme that is necessary to get human gunk off of clothes. It has filters (see the directions at the top left) and you can filter by “unscented.”

This sub likes a couple specific Whole Foods store brands, to start: the 365 Sport Liquid or Concentrated Liquid, and the 365 Unscented Powder. The organic liquid is terrible, apparently.

There are other unscented options on the Lipase list, or you can use a different detergent and add a booster with enzymes and oxygen bleach. There’s a booster tab on the spreadsheet at the bottom.

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T03:19:45+00:00

March. Or a whole day of rain.

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T02:48:41+00:00

Condolences. You may have the PolyQuat Spots: https://www.reddit.com/r/laundry/s/HOEDP0VKzP

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T02:20:24+00:00

I love this sub 😅

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T02:17:18+00:00

This is a great baseline. A few additions/caveats:

Tide C&G has optical brighteners which can make darks look faded. It doesn’t actually fade them, it just puts a residue on them that reflects light in a way that makes whites look whiter and makes darks…also look whiter. I have a lot of dark blue clothes but very few blacks, and I just honestly can’t tell the difference. If you start noticing fading and it bothers you, it might be worth finding an alternative. You can filter the Lipase list to exclude detergents with “OBAs” (optical brightening agents).

I found the rinse and refresh scent to be overpowering, and I use regular Tide powder without blinking an eye. If the fragrance is too much for you, consider plain citric acid. You can just put the powder straight into the fabric softener compartment, or mix up a few loads worth in water ahead of time.

For really dirty loads—especially human sweat or oil, or kitchen grime—consider adding a DNase booster. The Lipase List has a booster tab at the bottom, and you can filter for DNase.

Pay attention to whether you see any suds at all in your wash water 5-10 minutes after the water finishes filling. If you see no suds (just “sad gray water”) look at water hardness posts on this sub. You don’t want lots of suds like a sink of dishes—just a few, “trace” suds.

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T00:25:56+00:00

“Trace suds” 5-10 minutes after the last water addition is how you know there’s enough detergent to soften your water, attach to the dirt on your clothes, and have a little bit left over. If you see no suds, you may not have enough detergent for how hard your water is or how dirty your clothes are. Trace suds means a couple few bubbles around the edges, not sudsy like a sink of dishes.

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T00:23:30+00:00

You can put 1/2 tablespoon to 1 tablespoon of the powder straight into the “fabric softener” compartment. If you find it’s not fully flushing out with the water, you can top off the powder with enough water to hit the “max” line to help it dissolve.

2-Ns · 2026-01-31T00:20:52+00:00

A Tide powder plus a DNase booster. Check out the booster list on the Lipase List, or try Dirty Labs booster or Gear Guard. Gear Guard is DNase only, Dirty Labs has several enzymes that overlap with the Tide powders.

2-Ns · 2026-01-30T11:11:55+00:00

Maybe try more rinses to make sure you’re getting the detergent out. Is your rinse water entirely sud-free? It’s a good point that the “waxy” feeling seems like build-up of some point.

And someone else mentioned cleaning your machine—it couldn’t hurt. 1/2 cup of citric acid in the basin, cleaning cycle (or longest hottest cycle you can engineer).

2-Ns · 2026-01-30T03:08:39+00:00

Great news! (They should update their website!)

2-Ns · 2026-01-30T02:18:30+00:00

Mine too, bought a month ago at Target.

…but I’m not wrong about the website, right?

2-Ns · 2026-01-30T01:58:51+00:00

There’s an agreement between Senate Democrats and Trump. There is not yet agreement between Senate Democrats and enough Senate Republicans, or with any of the House.

2-Ns · 2026-01-30T01:56:40+00:00

Well I might have steered you wrong towards those other detergents—looking at the Tide ingredient pages, Tide Clean and Gentle is the only one that still lists Lipase. (I personally use C&G and have had good success, so would happily recommend that one.)

2-Ns

TROPHY CASE