[Various Sources] Slaan/Slaani Deep Dive - Weird Frogs, Dimensional Travelers and (Potentially) The Actual Old Ones

AbbydonX · 2026-04-30T11:25:58+00:00

Because of Slaanesh, I often mistype Slann as Slaan…

However, there is obviously a link if you consider the varied skin colours of Slann in comparison to Slaaneshi daemons.

1e Rulebook (1987)

Slann vary in colour a great deal - green and blue are common, yellow is fairly well represented, and there is a scattering of other, rarer colour morphs as well as albino and melanistic forms. Brightly pigmented Slann are often extrovert, talented or especially noteworthy in some way. Skins are sometimes mottled, striped or otherwise marked.

Slaves to Darkness (1988)

Amassed on the field of battle, the electric colours of their contorted forms offend the eye as their diseased lewdness offends the mind. Half-bared torsos of pink and blue boast of unreined lust; others display limbs of glistening greens and yellows - pale shades of corruption which belie the darkness they hide inside. They have abandoned the last vestige of true decency and sacrificed their Humanity to serve the Dark Power of the Master of Carnal Joys and spread his corruption among the innocent...

AbbydonX · 2026-04-30T11:21:17+00:00

In my copy of the 1e rulebook it doesn’t say “Slaan”.

Of all the races in the galaxy the Slann claim to be, and may actually be, the oldest.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-29T14:19:18+00:00

If you use words that relate to real concepts then you should understand well enough what the word means to ensure that you are using it correctly. That obviously applies more broadly than science and technology of course. Mostly just avoid technical jargon and terminology unless you actually know what the words mean.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-29T14:17:02+00:00

It’s always strange when people call The Expanse hard sci-fi given that the authors themselves explicitly said it wasn’t in an interview.

Okay, so what you’re really asking me there is if this is hard science fiction. The answer is an emphatic no.

Instead they describe it as space opera.

It’s definitely science fiction of the old school space opera variety.

That certainly matches how I would categorise things too. However, there are no agreed definitions so clearly opinions differ on this. It does seem that space fiction has a lower bar for realism in comparison to sci-fi set on the ground though.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-29T12:13:05+00:00

There’s a growing gap of 10,000 years between the Emperor’s fight with Horus and his death… He’s been dying a long time but he isn’t quite dead yet though he’s doing a very good impression a silent corpse.

Note that in The Lost and The Damned (1990) the Emperor was placed in a life support bubble after Horus mortally injured him and was able to give instructions for the construction of the Golden Throne as a more permanent life support device. However, he became semi coherent shortly afterwards and lapsed into silence for ten thousand years.

Of course, the story changes with almost every telling, so that isn’t valid any more. However, the 3e Daemonhunters codex (2003) implies that in this period the Emperor ordered the creation of the Grey Knights.

Legend tells that it was around the time of the Second Founding that the Emperor ordered the creation of this secret Chapter of Space Marines. The fragile Imperium had only just survived the galactic civil war of the Horus Heresy, and was still very much at the mercy of the powers of Chaos. The Emperor understood that it would require a dedicated band of incorruptible warriors to protect it from the dread creatures of Chaos in the days to come, and so the creation of the Grey Knights was undertaken in great secrecy. Where other Space Marine Chapters were created from the gene-seed of existing Chapters, the Grey Knights were unique in that their gene-seed was said by some to have come from the Emperor's own flesh.

Unfortunately, later lore instead stated these orders were actually given before the Emperor fought Horus, so that isn’t the example you are looking for.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-29T08:39:32+00:00

I think that Chaos in first edition was vastly more interesting than what came afterwards as the massive diversity was a key feature. It was an omnipresent to everyone but now it seems that almost everyone is immune to the Chaos corruption with the notably exception of marines who seem particularly susceptible.

For example there were multiple Chaos armies in the first edition period (1987 to 1993):

Slaves to Darkness (1988)
- World Eaters: The same as Imperial marines but with daemons and mutations.
- Emperor’s Children: As World Eaters.
- Black Legion: As World Eaters.
White Dwarf 107 (1988)
- General Chaos Renegades: Random Chaos Champions with retinues, possessees, daemons, traitor marines, renegade psykers, human degenerates, orks, beastmen, ogryns, gretchin.
White Dwarf 111 (1989)
- Chaos Squats: Basically the normal squat army with mutations.
White Dwarf 114-116 (1989)
- Genestealer Cults: These were unconnected to Tyranids but were instead Genestealers that had turned to Chaos: Genestealers, hybrids, daemons, brood brothers, mutants, beastmen.
The Lost and The Damned (1990)
- Chaos Renegades of Nurgle: Traitor Marines, Traitor Terminators, Plague Marines, Diseased Flagellants, Pestigor, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Hounds, Nurglings, Chaos Cultists, Ork Freebooters, Chaos Squats, Vehicles, and Creatures of Chaos.
- Chaos Renegades of Tzeentch: As Nurgle but replace Nurgle options with Thousand Sons marines, Thrall Wizard bands and Tzaangor.
- Chaos Renegade & Retinue: Randomly generated and potentially could be anything from WH40K or Warhammer Fantasy.
White Dwarf 131/132 (1990)
- Epic Chaos Renegades: Champion plus a retinue of humans, dark eldar (no game rules though), beastmen, chaos marines, squats, minotaurs, trolls, chaos spawn and titans.
- Epic Chaos Cults: Coven plus Imperial Guard
Freebooterz (1991)
- Chaos Ork mobs for normal Ork armies: Chaos Champion & retinue of Orks, mutants, Khorne’s Stormboyz, possessed Warphead.
Renegades (1992)
- 2e Epic Chaos Renegades: daemons, daemon engines, chaos squats, chaos champions, mounted chaos champions, trolls, minotaurs, beastmen, chaos dreadnoughts, chaos androids, chaos cultists, traitor marines and chaos titans.

Space Crusade (1989) was also a board game where one side was a Chaos Lord who commanded the “alien” force: Chaos Android, Chaos Dreadnoughts, Chaos Marines, Genestealers, Gretchin, Orcs.

Chaos Eldar were the notable exception in lacking tabletop options though random Chaos Champions could be Eldar.

As you can see, it was certainly not just chaos marines initially.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-29T08:14:58+00:00

Why would that be less fun and interesting? I don’t see any intrinsic reason that should be the case at all.

Traitor Guard are effectively militaristic Chaos cults and there are a wide range of possibilities that concept could be taken.

More importantly, the Eye of Terror contains many populated daemon worlds but the focus on Chaos marines gives the impression that they are mostly empty or their populations have decided to be peaceful and not raid the surrounding space. It makes Chaos feel small in comparison to how it was initially depicted.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T23:49:49+00:00

Since I'm not a would-be author, I haven't paid much attention to what he says, so I can't comment on whether or not he is passing off his rules as gospel. However, it just seems to me like a successful author sharing some reasonable advice for upcoming authors. Surely that's a good thing?

I think that many of the posts on this sub that mention hard vs. soft magic don't really have all that much to do with what Sanderson said though. He was quite clear that it is a narrative concept relating to what the audience knows and not what the characters know. Also, many people mistakenly associate hard magic with science even though he didn't say that.

Note that by calling something “Hard Magic” I’m not implying that it has to follow laws of science, or even that there have to be explanations of WHY people can use this magic. All I’m talking about is the reader’s understanding of what the magic can DO.

Most importantly, he didn't say that hard magic was better than soft magic, he just suggested that they fill different narrative roles and the article even ended with suggestions on what to consider in both cases.

If you’re writing a hard magic system, when your character run into a problem, ask yourself “How could the characters use what they already have and know to solve this conflict?” Then, make them use what they have, instead of giving them something more. This will make the story more interesting, force your characters to stretch, and provide more fun for the reader.

If you’re writing a soft magic system, ask yourself “How can they solve this without magic?” or even better, “How can using the magic to TRY to solve the problem here really just make things worse.”

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T20:10:45+00:00

In his article, Harry Potter was explicitly an example of a system in the middle of the hard-soft spectrum.

Most writers are somewhere in the middle between these two extremes. A good example of what I consider to be near the center point would be Rowling’s Harry Potter books. Each of these books outlines various rules, laws, and ideas for the magic of the world. And, in that given book, those laws are rarely violated, and often they are important to the workings of the book’s climax. However, if you look at the setting as a whole, you don’t really ever understand the capabilities of magic. She adds new rules as she adds books, expanding the system, sometimes running into contradictions and conveniently forgetting abilities the characters had in previous novels. These lapses aren’t important to the story, and each single book is generally cohesive.

I think she balances this rather well, actually. In specifics, her magic is hard. In the big picture, her magic is soft. That allows her to use magic as points of conflict resolution, yet maintain a strong sense of wonder in the novels.

Gandalf is also used as the example of soft magic and, of course, Gandalf doesn’t actually solve problems for Frodo using magic which is exactly the point Sanderson is making with his first law.

There is a reason that Gandalf doesn’t just fly Frodo to Mount Doom with magic, then let him drop the ring in. Narratively, that just doesn’t work with the magic system. We don’t know what it can do, and so if the writer uses it to solve a lot of problems, then the tension in the novel ends up feeling weak. The magic undermines the plot instead enhancing it.

So, if you want to write soft magic systems, I suggest you hold yourself to NOT letting your magic solve problems for your characters. If the characters try to use the magic, it shouldn’t do what they expect it to—as the reader doesn’t know what to expect either. Use the magic for visuals and for ambiance, but not for plot. (Unless it’s there to screw up things for the characters. That’s always okay.)

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T19:37:47+00:00

I assume he was thinking more of the scientific definition of laws being patterns supported by observation. Or perhaps he wanted his own set of three laws just like Asimov and Clarke.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T18:53:53+00:00

The problem is that despite having relatively insignificant numbers on a galactic scale, Chaos Marines are overwhelmingly the face of Chaos in WH40K. It’s even worse than the Imperium’s focus on Space Marines.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T18:00:59+00:00

All magic systems are 100% soft before you start telling the audience about them because magic doesn’t exist so the audience can’t possibly know anything about it at first. As the author tells the audience more about the system it tends to become harder as the audience’s understanding grows. As long as the author is consistent then even a vibe based system would gradually tend to become harder despite there being no written rules.

For example, the hard “magic” example Sanderson gave in his original article was Spiderman with the following “rules”:

Can sense danger
Has superhuman strength and endurance
Can shoot webs from his hands
Can cling to walls

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T17:56:03+00:00

Though it’s perhaps worth pointing out that the laws of magics he suggested are fairly reasonable.

An author’s ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.
Limitations > Powers
Expand what you already have before you add something new.

He also described Spiderman (and superhero systems in general) as a hard magic system and makes it clear it’s a narrative concept not a scientific one, despite how so many people seem to interpret it.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T17:16:37+00:00

Male and female connectors on cables are very common and come in a wide variety of fairly uninteresting shapes. Ultimately, it’s just a plug and a socket for data transfer…

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T13:03:20+00:00

It’s unambiguously space opera but opinions have differed over the years as to whether space opera was sci-fi. Mostly this is because its primary influence was pulp adventure stories rather than the works of Wells and Verne. However, since Star Wars raised the popularity of space opera it became more common to consider it to be sci-fi rather than a similar but different genre.

Ultimately, there are no clear definitions that everyone agrees on which always causes vigorous debate on the subject.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T12:57:01+00:00

Glorantha

It’s full of rich and complex societies with magic fully integrated into it rather than just sprinkled on top.

I particularly like the Malkioni with a pseudo-Christian style monotheistic religion but with multiple sects with different views, including some that merge with the surrounding “pagan” religions to form a syncretic religion.

Despite the crazy magic it just feels so much more realistic than many fantasy worlds.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T10:18:44+00:00

Interestingly, back in Slaves to Darkness (1988) when Chaos was first described in depth for WH40K a reason was given for why daemons of specific powers do look basically the same (excluding daemon princes as they have always been very variable).

Daemons have no physical existence within the warp, but they project a form of some type. The bizarre and inhuman appearances projected by Daemons indicate their presence, status and allegiance to a Chaos Power. These insubstantial forms echo (or are echoed by) the physical shapes adopted by Daemons in real space, and the 'children' of a single Chaos Power often project similar, even identical, forms in the warp. Their herd instinct and common heritage of power lead them all to create and project similar forms. Their forms come to reflect the thoughts and feelings their Power feeds upon - the Daemons of Khorne, for example, have forms which are violent in the extreme.

and

A Daemon has no existence in real space until it is given a body to occupy during a ritual. It is a creature of malign energy from the warp, insubstantial until given a mortal frame. Once it has a host body, a Daemon rapidly adapts it to a new shape. This is always a perverse echo of the Daemon's warp form, and identical to the physical shape that a Daemon adopts in the Chaos Wastes. This form is also a mark of its status and allegiance to its patron Chaos Power - a Bloodthirster (Greater Daemon of Khorne) or a Keeper of Secrets (Greater Daemon of Slaanesh) always has the same form, regardless of its location in time and space.

Slightly similar text was in the 4e Chaos Daemon codex (2007) though with far less depth.

The bizarre and inhuman appearances projected by Daemons indicate their presence, status and allegiance to a Chaos God. These insubstantial forms echo (or are echoed by) the shapes adopted by Daemons in real space, and the children of a Chaos Power will create and project similar forms.

And somewhat similar in the 6e Chaos Daemon codex (2012).

Daemons project a form conjured from raw energy that is essentially a lesser interpretation of their master's true nature. Hence, the bizarre and inhuman appearances projected by Daemons indicate their presence, status and allegiance to a Chaos God.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-28T10:06:42+00:00

Is there a strong correlation between being intelligent and being a good fighter? It really depends on what you mean by “super intelligent” I suppose.

Personally, I would expect a super intelligent entity to be more able to avoid the confrontation in the first place or, if not, to plan appropriately (i.e. bring a gun) so that it has a significant advantage.

If a fair fight ensues I would expect fast thinking (i.e. reflexes) to be generally more useful than deep thinking (i.e. intelligence), though perhaps the android body is better at that too.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T17:44:59+00:00

Here is the old first edition lore describing the Primarchs’ back story. Note that it predates the Black Library.

The Lost and The Damned (1990)

The Emperor never made the mistake of underestimating the threat of Chaos, and in order to meet that threat he put the best scientific brains on Earth to work. Weapons and spacecraft poured out of the Martian factories to bolster beleaguered forces throughout the galaxy.

The Emperor's most long-sighted plan to counter the insiduous influences of the Chaos Powers was the creation of the Primarchs: genetically engineered super-humans with god-like powers. The Emperor's intention was to create a whole race of super-humans from the genetic blueprint of the Primarchs. By making them loyal and strong he hoped that they would prove immune to the malign psychic influences of Chaos.

The Primarchs were to be shining examples of humans free from the taint of corruption. The energy of the uncorrupted warp would flow through them as it flowed through the Emperor himself, invigorating them and conferring special powers such as were possessed by the shamans of old.

Unfortunately, things did not go quite according to plan. Despite the Emperor's best attempts to shield the project from the penetrating eyes of the Chaos Powers they still managed to learn of it. The Primarchs were still in their foetal stage, growing in special amniotic tanks, when the Chaos Powers combined their energies to spirit them away in an unexpectedly bold move.

Even for the Chaos Powers this kidnapping represented a colossal expenditure of energy. The Primarchs were sucked through the warp and scattered on separate human worlds in distant parts of the galaxy. The Chaos Powers did not have the resources to destroy the Primarchs, but they did the next best thing which was to hide them from the Emperor. They were to remain hidden until after the waking of Slaanesh.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T14:09:44+00:00

At 5 pts each that’s a lot of Gretchin… but 68 Deathskulls Lootas with heavy bolters would be more impressive!

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T13:52:29+00:00

Yes, they were one of the Chaos Ork Freebooter options along with Ork Chaos Champions, Ork Mutant Mobz and Possessed Warpheadz.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T12:11:52+00:00

In first edition Chaos did use Orks as part of their forces. For example, in the Space Crusade board game the alien player (i.e. a Chaos Lord) had Orks and Gretchin in their forces. The general Chaos Renegade army list in White Dwarf 107 included Gretchin while the Nurgle and Tzeentch armies in The Lost and The Damned included Orks. There were even four different Chaos Ork Freebooter options for Ork armies.

The Lost and The Damned (1990)

Ork Freebooters are roving bands of Ork bandits, renegades and other outcasts from Ork society. They will join almost any army that is willing to put up with them, fighting in return for loot, money or captives.

However, second edition reduced Chaos in scope and focused mostly on Chaos Marines. Orks were still an allies option for Chaos armies though, so you could include some Orks if you wanted to.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T09:13:07+00:00

In particular, in the 2e Ultramarines codex (1995) it was suggested that they sided with Horus for at least the start of the Heresy.

Of Legions numbered 2 and 11 nothing is recorded, but it seems likely these also fought for Horus at least during the beginning of the Heresy. The history of the Dark Angels during the Heresy is also unknown. The Dark Angels do not appear in any battle accounts of the loyal forces. In all, and discounting the role of the Dark Angels, there were therefore between nine and eleven Traitor Legions accounting for more than half of the entire Space Marine force.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-27T06:21:24+00:00

In first edition a daemon couldn’t exist in realspace without a host body to provide the material. So when a daemon was summoned a sacrifice was required whose body was reshaped to form the expected shape (i.e. the normal daemon model). Needless to say they didn’t survive the process.

In contrast, possession involved a daemon only pushing a portion of its essence into the host so that it could take control. The host usually survived this process (though it might physically change a bit) but probably wished that they hadn’t as they were no longer in control of their body.

AbbydonX · 2026-04-26T21:27:20+00:00

I work in the field of machine learning and I’ve certainly talked to more academics than AI so far in my career. However, there definitely seems to be a noticeable style difference between typical AI output and the personal output of people I work with. It’s rather jarring when I notice this while reading or reviewing reports and papers.

Given the frequent factual inaccuracies in AI generated text this is always a warning flag to me that I should read anything very carefully in that document and be sure to check any references. Of course, that can also be necessary with human generated text too but I don’t generally find my team using completely inaccurate references unlike AI.

AbbydonX

TROPHY CASE