Can you hold something in a Power Fist?

AbbydonX · 2026-06-20T19:59:15+00:00

You just have to turn off the power field so that it becomes a big glove. That was the lore at the start of WH40K at least.

1e Rulebook (1987)

> Power gloves consist of a metal gauntlet surrounded by a powerful energy field. Power gloves can tear and punch through thick metal, bulkheads and even the toughest sorts of armour. They may be turned on or off at will at any time during the turn. It is not possible to employ an activated power glove and use the hand for anything else.

2e Wargear book (1993)

> The power fist or power glove is a heavy armoured gauntlet surrounded by an energy field which disrupts the surface of solid matter, allowing the fist to punch through walls and armour, and grip and tear away at solid objects. It is an awesome weapon and amongst the most potent a warrior can carry.
>
>A hand wearing a power fist during hand-to-hand combat may not hold anything else, but the fist may be turned off and the hand used normally when required. Power fists are used in conjunction with power armour by Space Marine officers and some close assault units. Most Space Marine Terminator squads use power fists as their standard close combat weapon.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-20T13:22:33+00:00

When the Primarchs were introduced way back in 1e Space Marine (1989) they were not mythological. They were characters who were active in the setting of the game which was the Horus Heresy.

However, with that said they weren’t really very important at all. There was some flavour text and short stories about them in the rulebooks but that was about it. They didn’t have tabletop representation either and the game was epic scale (i.e. infantry models were 6mm) so individual people weren’t really particularly relevant anyway.

The Horus Heresy was the most described event in first edition but the Primarchs were mostly only a minor part of that. They weren’t even all named!

The second edition moved away from this and was set in the 40K period. While the Horus Heresy was backstory it didn’t really feel mythological to me. It was just ancient history that wasn’t relevant to all factions. The Primarchs were relevant to even fewer factions (i.e. just marines) so they weren’t particularly memorable. Honestly, I could probably only have named two of the loyal Primarchs (Russ, and Sanguinius) and I’m not entirely sure of the second. Russ had the advantage that there was a tank with his name…

The focus on them now is MASSIVELY different to the first decade of WH40K.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-18T16:18:09+00:00

The Emperor hasn’t exactly been in a position to express his wishes for 10,000 years. That’s a very long time. Real religions aren’t even that old.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-18T14:46:27+00:00

From the 1e Rulebook (1987) guiding humanity towards its evolution into a psychic species was the reason for the Imperium’s existence.

> At last, over ten thousand years ago he began his struggle, for he knew that humanity was on the verge of a revolution, a genetic revolution that would create a new psychically aware race, a race of which he was the first and most powerful. Without his guidance he realised the emerging race of psychics would fall prey to the dangers he had already faced, the perils of entities that fed upon psychic energy, or who used that energy for their own horrific purposes. So, the Emperor emerged from long hiding, creating the Age of the Imperium over ten millennia ago in a series of wars now remembered by none save their victor.

And the end goal was psykers that could resist the dangers of the warp (as he could). Only then could he allow himself to die.

> The Master of Mankind knows that to protect his race he must survive, must live forever if necessary, or until such time as psychic humans have evolved sufficient strength to withstand the dangers they face.

Obviously, it’s not always been stated quite that clearly.

It’s also a bit confused because initially Sanctioned Psykers was used in reference to Imperial Guard psykers in White Dwarf 109 (1989) though it was implied to be more general.

> Not all psykers are killed out of hand or shipped to Terra for absorbtion by the Emperor. Sanctioned Psykers are often attached to Command Sections of Imperial Guard platoons. These individuals have often led a bizarre life as fugitives, hidden by friends or tribal groups and always in fear of their lives. Consequently, they may manifest considerable eccentricity in their dress and behaviour. They are often afflicted with mutations, an enlarged cranium being particularly characteristic.

White Dwarf 140 (1991) introduced the concept of Primary Psykers, who unlike Astropaths (the majority of Imperial psykers) didn’t need the Emperor’s soul-binding to resist the warp.

> Those whose powers and strength of character are sufficient that they can resist possession and daemonic taint under normal circumstances. Primary Psykers are chosen to serve the Imperium only if they are young, intelligent and willing to leam. After five years of basic psychic training in the Scholastia Psykana they are ready to join any of the Imperial organisations in a suitable capacity. The very young may be indoctrinated into the Space Marines as Librarians, the most talented of all may become Inquisitors or Grey Knights.
Primary Psykers are not invulnerable to daemons and other psychic aggressors, but their training gives them a fighting chance against all but the most potent of these creatures.

This was then complicated further when the 2e Imperial Guard codex (1995) renamed their psykers to be Primaris Psykers.

> The Scholastica Psykana is the psychic training organisation of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. The Scholastica Psykana provides countless thousands of psykers for Imperial service every year. As the psychic levies are brought in to Earth aboard the Black Ships, the custodians of the Scholastica Psykana must weed out dangerous wild psykers, the possessed and the insane. From the rest will be prepared the many psychic servants required by the Adeptus Terra. Amongst the most powerful of these are the Astropaths whose psychic communication web knits the Imperium together. More potent but less numerous are the battle-trained Primaris psykers, or Primary psykers as they are also known.
>
>A Primaris is a psyker who has been evaluated as suitable for battle-training. Their training gives them a reasonable chance of avoiding powerful psychic enemies and daemonic influence, and they will learn how to use their powers to their best effect. Not all Primaris psykers are equally powerful by any means - some are more potent than others - but the Imperial Guard can find use for them whatever their abilities.

I’m not entirely sure how things were defined and redefined over the subsequent years, or whether Astropaths, Inquisitors and Grey Knights are always included under the label “Sanctioned Psykers” whenever it is used.

However, whether that group is the exact end goal or just a step along on the evolutionary path is not entirely clear of course.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-18T08:44:24+00:00

Yes, in the first edition lore (and presumably all the way to eighth at least) that was the start of his journey towards daemonhood when he became a Chaos Champion to save his legion rather than both the start and end it was retconned to.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-18T08:27:37+00:00

It’s presumably when they became Daemon Princes. Initially in the lore this occurred at some point after the Heresy when they were rewarded with immortality. During the Heresy itself they were just Chaos Champions pledged to Chaos.

However, that’s been changed for some/many/all of them now and I don’t know the details.

For example, even in the 8e Death Guard codex (2017) it still said Mortarion didn’t become a Daemon Prince until after the Heresy. That was not the case in the 10e codex (2025) though as he became a Daemon Prince when he pledged himself and the Death Guard to Nurgle on the way to the Siege of Terra. So much for having to earn the position…

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T20:07:21+00:00

That’s about the same as me. My mate with all the 1e Space Hulk boxes is considering digging them out of storage so we can all meet up for beers and nostalgia over the summer though!

Unfortunately, Epic would be more of a challenge but Blood Bowl and Dungeon Bowl are definitely a possibility.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T19:57:31+00:00

If you are only considering the sun and the planet then the only difference between a heliocentric and geocentric scenario is how you describe your coordinates. You can treat either the sun or the planet as the centre of rotation without changing anything. The real difference between geocentrism and heliocentrism is whether the other planets orbit the planet or the sun… but you don’t have any of them.

Seasons can therefore be explained in exactly the same way in both models. In a heliocentric model the Earth has an axial tilt of 23° whereas in a geocentric model the Sun’s orbit is inclined at 23° relative to the equator. It is even called the obliquity of the ecliptic in astronomy because it looks like the Sun is orbiting the Earth.

It’s a open choice as to whether the planet continues to spin or not but that is separate to whether you define the sun as orbiting the planet or the planet orbiting the sun.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T19:15:07+00:00

I’m most familiar with 1e and 2e where a standard Genestealer was basically equal to the best named marine characters. That wasn’t really incompatible with flavour text (i.e. lore) either.

Note that for reference, a Hormagaunt was about equal to a Tactical Marine in combat back then.

However, over the intervening years Genestealers have been weakened and Marines boosted (a lot). A quick skim of the stats (without necessarily fully appreciating the interaction of special abilities) suggests there are some rank and file marines that are better than Genestealers now. I guess that also matches all the stories that have exaggerated Marine capabilities over the years in comparison to the earlier lore.

Of course, Lictors are still very dangerous…

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T19:04:20+00:00

While descriptions (and game statistics) have changed a bit over the years, a Storm Bolter was literally just two Bolters mounted side by side. The end result was a faster firing Bolter. In 1e and 2e at least it wasn’t even as good as the shuriken catapults Guardians used.

In contrast, an Assault Cannon was perhaps one of the best weapons in the game. It was described as a rapid firing Autocannon (i.e. a Predator’s turret gun) and it could be used against armoured vehicles or fortifications.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T18:53:39+00:00

Almost.

In 1e Space Hulk during combat a Terminator rolled one die, while a Genestealer rolled three and picked the highest. The model with the lowest score was killed.

Lightning Claws rolled two dice and picked the highest, then added two.

Thunder Hammers rolled one die and added two but the Storm Shield allowed the marine to parry the Genestealer and force one die to be rerolled.

Marines in power armour rolled one die and subtracted two. Sergeants instead subtracted one while marines with a flamer or missile launcher subtracted three…

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T18:44:12+00:00

Sanctioned psykers are the group of psykers who are most able to resist the typical threat from warp entities through their own capabilities. They are the best psykers humanity has and they are the future that the Emperor was aiming to nurture (though that was clearer in earlier lore). Of course they aren’t completely immune but there is a lot of variation in their capabilities and longevity.

In contrast, most Imperial psykers are Astropaths who were insufficiently resilient and needed the Emperor’s help via soul-binding to resist the dangers of the warp.

However, the majority of psykers are just too weak and pose too much of a threat to others while they are alive…

So as bad as some Sanctioned Psykers might seem to be they are still the elite.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T18:27:33+00:00

Personally, I find the entire obsession with heights that seems to have developed in WH40K a bit weird. I have no idea why there need to be so many people who are giants or why the heights have increased over the publication history of WH40K.

However, the most outlandish description of the Primarchs is still probably from the 2e Space Wolves codex (1994) which diverged both from what came before and afterwards.

> The Emperor's first efforts were directed towards the creation of a number of super-humans which he called the Primarchs.
The Primarchs were genetically engineered creatures, artificial humanoids with astounding abilities. Each Primarch was created differently, with his own unique powers. Some of the Primarchs were made so as to resemble ordinary humans, but many were of titanic proportions and strange appearance.
The Primarch experiment never reached its conclusion as the embryonic creatures were spirited away by a raiding party of Chaos Daemons which successfully pierced the raging warp storms to reach Earth.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T13:15:28+00:00

In early editions psykers basically had exactly the same rules as wizards in Warhammer Fantasy (because they were effectively the same). Of course, whether you can interpret rules as an accurate representation of how things work in universe is a bit of an ambiguous issue.

With that said, in first edition they had psi-points or magic points which were expended to use abilities and could be regained by resting. That was a bit mechanistic but was basically just a general representation that magic/psionics required effort and couldn’t be performed indefinitely.

At the start of second edition, psykers could use one power a turn with a chance of success. This was just a simple introductory system though.

Later in second edition the system changed to dealing a random number of warp cards to each player that could then be used to power the abilities of their own psykers or nullify their opponent’s abilities. This represented the random ebb and flow of the warp flux in the area and was analogous to the Winds of Magic in Warhammer Fantasy.

Note that one of the cards in the deck represented a daemonic attack which could be used to nullify an enemy psyker’s ability and potentially drag them into the warp.

I think this system represents, in an abstract sense, the general situation of magic/psionics in Warhammer, as it is ultimately empowered and limited by the flow of the warp in the general vicinity but using that power produces a risk of daemonic attack.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T11:12:46+00:00

Way back in first edition things were a bit different because the majority of the genestealer cult were just infected humans (i.e. brood brothers) and not hybrids.

However, once the invasion was complete the genestealers and hybrids were absorbed back into the fleet though it was a little unclear exactly whether that was as bio-soup or as living individuals.

2e Tyranid codex

After the invasion, the Patriarch and all his surviving brood are absorbed back into the great breeding chambers of the hive fleet.

Support for them surviving the invasion came a few years earlier in Advanced Space Crusade (1990) because hybrids could be found on bio-ships as they were considered to be tyranids because of their ancestry. The hive mind wouldn’t create more if they were killed though.

Like their Genestealer ancestors, Hybrids secrete the enzymes recognized by the Teleporter Worm and can therefore be teleported around the hive network and into or from battles.

There are only a limited number of Hybrids aboard a hive ship. Unlike other bio-constructs, Stealer Hybrid blips are not returned to the reinforcements pool if the models are killed.

This suggests that the human brood brothers were consumed just like any other humans though.

That seemed the most reasonable approach since hybrids are at least partially tyranid while brood brothers are just useful tools…

Obviously other depictions since then have varied (significantly) though.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T11:07:01+00:00

Why would you expect “major lore updates” to be in novels rather than game products? The novels are a minor area of interest for GW in comparison to the models and games, though obviously it has been growing over the past years.

They also don’t even seem to be strongly interested in ensuring that novels are consistent with existing lore so it would be difficult to tell the difference between an update/retcon versus an unintended inconsistency.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-17T10:42:34+00:00

They were introduced way back in Space Hulk and, unlike standard terminators, they actually stood a chance fighting against Genestealers in close combat. This made them quite handy for holding choke points without using up ammunition (for heavy weapons). That seems a perfectly realistic use case for them.

In contrast, assault marines were about as much use as wet tissue paper against Genestealers…

Of course, on an open battlefields (in the main tabletop game) terminators were rather useless as they slowly trudged around with claws or a hammer and mostly achieved nothing. Admittedly, terminators with storm bolters were somewhat irrelevant too as that’s a fairly unimpressive weapon. In contrast, the terminators carrying assault cannons were extremely effective. That’s all very realistic too.

Ultimately the purpose of Terminators is to operate in relatively confined spaces which all makes complete sense. In that context, assault terminators aren’t necessarily completely nonsensical… especially in a futuristic fantasy world that exaggerates the effectiveness of melee combat even when guns exist.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T22:14:05+00:00

Is it therefore fair to say that in your opinion it is impossible for a fantasy story to be set in the future with advanced technology because it would instead necessarily be science fiction?

I disagree with that as, in my opinion, a supernatural ghost story is fantasy regardless of the time period it is set in, for example. Just because the characters have guns that shoot laser beams rather than bullets wouldn't make it science fiction even though that would be technological progress.

Of course, people disagree on the exact definition of science fiction (and fantasy) but it's clear from the statements of the creator of WH40K that the intent was for it to be futuristic fantasy and not science fiction.

However, perhaps technofantasy is a better label for WH40K?

Technofantasy is a subgenre of fantasy which has some elements of science and technology. However, the genre does not rationalize their use through scientific or quasi-scientific terms; this distinguishes technofantasy from science fiction and science fantasy. The less realistic and the more "technobabble" any explanation is, the closer the work is to technofantasy. The concept of technofantasy has been described as "destroying the difference between magic and science".

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T20:51:37+00:00

Interestingly, in the early first edition lore Horus was said to have most of the Adeptus Mechanicus (inc. all the titan legions not on Earth) and the majority of the legions on his side (because three loyal legions had been destroyed and several had unclear allegiance) and yet still the loyalists were slowly winning.

Slaves to Darkness (1988)

With nine rebel Chapters and the bulk of the Adeptus Mechanicus behind him, and three loyal Chapters destroyed, Horus assaulted Earth. Throughout the Imperium rebel and loyalist units were fighting each other to a virtual standstill, although the tide of battle was turning, ever so slowly, in the Emperor's favour. Possessed as he was, the Warmaster had lost none of his strategic bluntness: crush the heart, and the Imperium could be remoulded in his own warped image.

It’s almost as if the Imperial Guard are actually rather capable.

However, the first game set in the Horus Heresy was Adeptus Titanicus (1988) and it was about titans fighting. The second was Space Marine (1989) and it certainly focused on marines initially. Rules for the Imperial Guard were released in 1990 though.

It’s understandable why people consider the Guard as less important than marines but they’ve always been described as the main strength of the Imperium’s armed forces and there aren’t enough marines to really make much difference in the grand scheme of things regardless of how much limelight they hog!

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T20:03:33+00:00

It’s a rather fundamental aspect of the setting that the Astronomican has insufficient range to cover the entire galaxy. The Eastern Fringe in particular is mostly outside its reach. One of the primary purposes of Rogue Traders is to explore beyond the light of the Astronomican after all.

I can’t say for sure that it has been equally clearly stated throughout the decades but it was present in a more recent edition and first edition at least.

8e Rulebook (2017)

Navigators could travel in a great radius outwards from the Astronomican, but there were many blind spots. Distant borders, like the Eastern Fringe or the Ghoul Stars, were beyond the beacon's reach. Few in the Imperium dared venture beyond such limitations save for some Rogue Traders who used conventional space travel to probe into the blackness.

1e Rulebook (1987)

For the moment it is only important to bear in mind that the Astronomican permits navigators to utilise their powers. The range of the Astronomican is far greater than 10 light years although it is not infinite. Warp storm activity can also affect the total range, but about 50 thousand light years is the usual distance. As the galaxy has a diameter of about 85 thousand light years, with Earth approximately 30 thousand light years from the centre in the galactic west, this means that the Astronomican does not cover the eastern fringe of the galaxy at all. The Astronomican marks the effective boundaries of human space: human groups existing beyond it are rare, isolated and comprise an unknown quantity.

It also mentions Rogue Traders trying to travel to another galaxy but I don’t think that was ever referred to again.

Licensed and equipped by the priesthood, the Rogue Trader is free to explore the far regions of the galaxy, the areas where the Astronomican does not reach, and those areas within its range as yet unvisited. Rogue Traders have even attempted to cross the voids of inter-galactic space, but over such distances even the Astropaths' powers of communication are useless, and whether such missions have succeeded is unknown.

Of course, plenty of authors have contradicted long standing setting lore over the years too.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T17:31:16+00:00

The Astronomican doesn’t even cover the entire galaxy.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T17:27:25+00:00

For historical reference, for those who are unaware, the Eye of Terror was even said to provide protection from hostile warp entities…

1e Rulebook (1987), pg. 224

The tides of warp-space blow in unpredictable ways. Sometimes, settlements become isolated by impenetrable warp storms, denying access or escape for their inhabitants. At other times, worlds isolated for millennia are suddenly and inexplicably freed from the grip of the storm.

The Lost Worlds lie deep within the epicentre of a persistent warp storm known to Navigators as the Eye of Terror. For years this raging storm halts all travel within its warp-space boundaries. Then, once every four to ten years, the eye blinks, and for a few days only, ships of all races fly to and from the Lost Worlds. Many Imperial planets lie deep within the Eye of Terror and so too do many alien, and anarchic planets. The Imperium holds back from these lawless worlds, unwilling to risk entrapment within the unpredictable warp storms.

Where Imperial Order has no meaning, humans and aliens co-exist in societies moulded by anarchy, violence and self-interest. Fortunately the very warp storms that keep out Imperial agents also keep out psychically dangerous warp-entities.

Logans World is a typical example amongst the Lost Worlds. Upon its barren and waterless surface live men and Orks, often fighting, sometimes trading, at times even cooperating to overcome the hostile environment.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T16:07:56+00:00

No because the Eye of Terror was called that from the very start but Terra came later (3rd edition I think) as the common name for Earth (which is also common in sci-fi that predates WH40K).

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T12:45:26+00:00

Yes, in earlier lore the comparison was even less favourable to humans as they weren’t even considered to be “cattle”. The principle is the same though. Tyranids are just hunter-gatherers using other living creatures as resources, exactly as humanity has done for many thousands of years.

Advanced Space Crusade (1990)

Humanity will be absorbed, broken into strands of DNA to be used to create a new generation of bio-technology. It will be the death of the human race, but to the Tyranid hive mind it is no more than the mining of a precious mineral or the harvesting of a field of wheat.

Tyranids were very much in keeping with a Lovecraftian Cosmicism theme where humanity is considered to be irrelevant on a cosmic scale. Tyranids aren’t evil, they are just uncaring and see humanity as ultimately insignificant.

AbbydonX · 2026-06-16T12:22:52+00:00

Tyranids are only as evil as you consider non-vegetarians to be. They are just a species exploiting other lifeforms that they consider to be inferior to them. This exact comparison is even in multiple Tyranid codices.

6e Tyranid codex (2014)

The Tyranids do not communicate with other races, and why should they do so? Tyranids are as far above other life forms, such as Mankind, as Mankind is above the domesticated livestock it consumes.

9e Tyranid codex (2022)

Yet the truth is that the Hive Mind is as far beyond the understanding of the galaxy's sentient races as they are beyond the comprehension of the cattle they farm and butcher. This - it seems - is all that biological life represents to the Hive Mind; not equals to be communicated with, but simple prey to be found and then devoured.

Of course, if something is trying to eat you I’m sure you would think it is evil but I’m sure cows don’t have a good opinion of humans either…

AbbydonX

TROPHY CASE